Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

drum118 said:
If TTC doesn't fix the delay of opening of the doors on the new TR compare to rest of the fleet, TTC will be running fewer trains on the line.

The delay has drop from 6 seconds to 3 seconds and still 3 seconds too long.

Moving to the S-Bahn is the way to go, but you got 2 parties marching to their own drum. That TTC and Metrolinx.

I can tell you from my experience on the Yonge Line that you will find very few seats with standing room only at various times. This is even at night. Some section see more riders than other section.

You will find seats on the new extension as there are only a few time slots outside of peak time you cannot find a seat on the current section.

I am looking forward to have a taste of the S-Bahan when I am over there this summer. Hitting 5 Germany cities as well 10 counties.
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Doors.

From the Star back in 2010:

TTC’s new subway cars delayed

Toronto’s new Rocket subway cars are stuck on the launch pad months after they were expected to arrive in Toronto.

The delay, blamed on the bankruptcy of the New York-based door manufacturer, means Yonge-University riders will wait at least six additional months for some relief from the overcrowding on the system’s busiest line.

The new TR cars were supposed to begin testing in the TTC tunnels early this year. But officials say that it will be at least late August before the first Rockets arrive and the end of the year before they’re pressed into service.

Like the T1 cars running now on the Yonge line that will be moved over to the Bloor-Danforth line, the Toronto Rockets contain 66 seats. But open gangways that allow riders to move up and down the six-car trains, and a new seating configuration, means they can carry about 10 per cent more standing riders than the 1,000 that pack onto the existing trains.

Bombardier has done everything it can to minimize the impact of the manufacturing delay on the TTC and has set up a new supply chain that includes doing some of the door work in-house at the company’s Thunder Bay plant, said spokesman Marc-André Lefebvre.

“Right now we’re testing the cars at our Kingston test track,†he said.

The delay won’t affect TTC operations.

“We’re ok now. But because ridership continues to grow, really what we’re talking about is passenger comfort levels and crowding issues,†said TTC spokesman Brad Ross.

Toronto City Council awarded the $710 million Toronto Rocket contract to Bombardier in 2006 as a way of saving jobs in Thunder Bay. But the move hit controversy when a rival manufacturer suggested a competitive bidding process would have given taxpayers better value for their money.

Because the bankruptcy is considered beyond Bombardier’s control, the company won’t be penalized for the delay, said Ross.

The new cars, combined with a computerized signaling system on the Yonge line called automatic train control, along with more trains and crossover tracks, is expected to expand the TTC’s oldest subway line by 30 to 50 per cent by 2017.

Unlike the current subway cars that can be detached from one another, the Toronto Rockets come in six-car trains that include two cabs at each end and four coaches in between.

It will take about two years for the TTC to receive all 234 new subway cars.
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Looking back, we see door trouble. Today, again it is door trouble.
 
re: S-bahns,

I am anxiously awaiting what happens in Denver, which might be the first metropolitan area to get real S-bahn technology in North America. Of course, cities like New York and Philadelphia have electric regional rail, but they only utilize them marginally better than, say, GO's Lakeshore line. Hell, if you think that GO is bereft of ideas, the LIRR - which is blessed with hundreds of miles of electrified, grade-separated, high platform double tracked lines - is positively braindead. The fact that they're spending tens of billions of dollars to build a deadhead station under Grand Central, while NJT planned a nearly-as-expensive deadhead solution to Pennsylvania station mere blocks away shows how idiotic transit planning has gotten in New York City. Compared to them, we're practically Zurich.

Again, the Denver vs. New York thing speaks to my point in another thread that transit operators in Western North American cities are more "on the ball" with transit planning than their established, Eastern counterparts.
 
I completely agree Hipster Duck, though I daresay that Toronto's not that much further ahead in its planning than New York. Philadelphia is even sadder. They've got such an amazing infrastructure that they've inherited--almost European level--yet it's been completely squandered. They're even regressing to the point of abandoning through-running of their suburban lines.

New Yorkers just can't imagine the concept of regional rail and so they don't even comprehend the weaknesses of the LIRR. Even on the Jamaica to Penn stretch, which should operate as a shuttle (and did in the early 20th century), there are 45 minute gaps in service in the middle of the day, often followed by three trains within ten minutes. It's deliberately scheduled to run like the Spadina streetcar! I'm always amazed when talk of a super-express subway along the Long Island Expressway periodically pops up. It's quite obvious that the super-express subway is already there, in the form of the LIRR line. It just awaits fare integration and regular headways. Whenever New York transit is compared unfavourably to anybody else, they just fall back on the old "New York is the greatest city in the world and is therefore completely unique." I remember reading a transit planner boast that the Long Island Rail Road offers the world's most perfect transit system: "You don't even need a car, other than to get to the train station!" It sounds like I'm knocking New York but I love the city and it's got an amazing transit system. If you live in the city, it kicks the ass of the TTC. Dank as the stations may be, I can get from 125th street to 59th street in 10 minutes flat and the trains run all night. If you're in the outer boroughs or, god forbid, outside NYC, your transit situation is much worse. In Nassau County, for example, the bus service is worse than Houston.

I think one of the big advantages in Western North American cities is that their transit agencies' cultures aren't as ossified and self-satisfied as those in the East. The Not-Invented-Here syndrome isn't nearly as strong and they're much more willing to try new models.

I'm incredibly excited about Denver. If it works out, it will be the first example of real regional rail in North America. I do fear that it will get screwed up, though. At the first sign of budget cuts, they'll eliminated "unnecessary" midday services to "focus on their core market" of commuters. Well, I hope not.
 
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I don't get the door problem with the new trains. I thought it was a safety feature that prevents them from being opened while the train is in motion. Can't it just be reprogrammed to eliminate the delay?

In Europe, trains that require passengers to push a button or pull a lever to open the doors often allow them to be opened well before the train comes to a stop.
 
unimaginative2 said:
I completely agree Hipster Duck, though I daresay that Toronto's not that much further ahead in its planning than New York. Philadelphia is even sadder. They've got such an amazing infrastructure that they've inherited--almost European level--yet it's been completely squandered. They're even regressing to the point of abandoning through-running of their suburban lines.

New Yorkers just can't imagine the concept of regional rail and so they don't even comprehend the weaknesses of the LIRR. Even on the Jamaica to Penn stretch, which should operate as a shuttle (and did in the early 20th century), there are 45 minute gaps in service in the middle of the day, often followed by three trains within ten minutes. It's deliberately scheduled to run like the Spadina streetcar! I'm always amazed when talk of a super-express subway along the Long Island Expressway periodically pops up. It's quite obvious that the super-express subway is already there, in the form of the LIRR line. It just awaits fare integration and regular headways. Whenever New York transit is compared unfavourably to anybody else, they just fall back on the old "New York is the greatest city in the world and is therefore completely unique." I remember reading a transit planner boast that the Long Island Rail Road offers the world's most perfect transit system: "You don't even need a car, other than to get to the train station!" It sounds like I'm knocking New York but I love the city and it's got an amazing transit system. If you live in the city, it kicks the ass of the TTC. Dank as the stations may be, I can get from 125th street to 59th street in 10 minutes flat and the trains run all night. If you're in the outer boroughs or, god forbid, outside NYC, your transit situation is much worse. In Nassau County, for example, the bus service is worse than Houston.

I think one of the big advantages in Western North American cities is that their transit agencies' cultures aren't as ossified and self-satisfied as those in the East. The Not-Invented-Here syndrome isn't nearly as strong and they're much more willing to try new models.

I'm incredibly excited about Denver. If it works out, it will be the first example of real regional rail in North America. I do fear that it will get screwed up, though. At the first sign of budget cuts, they'll eliminated "unnecessary" midday services to "focus on their core market" of commuters. Well, I hope not.
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Denver sounds better on paper I think than it sounds in real life. The built urban environment in Denver is so tiny its hard to see it being used, I could see them building this massive LRT network with commuter service and it going to waste and it'll essentially become a smaller version of Philadelphia. Philly is a great example of what could be a great thing, but simply isn't. Then again, Philly is the most racially charged city in the northeast, so its hard to get some people to live in many areas of the city. And of course NYC is notorious for horrible suburban bus service.

There simply is no perfect. But of course those NYC express trains really do a great job.
 
drum118 said:
The delay has drop from 6 seconds to 3 seconds and still 3 seconds too long.
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So, when are they going to fix the delay on the T1s then? Should they bother with the H6s?

The average delay - insofar as it can be called a delay - is no worse than the delay in opening the T1 doors with some crews. It involves attentiveness, and if the crew isn't at attention there will be a short pause before the doors open. Regardless of the equipment used.

For the record I have taken two TRs in the past two days, and the longest delay in opening the doors at any station was about a second and a half.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Brandon716 said:
Denver sounds better on paper I think than it sounds in real life. The built urban environment in Denver is so tiny its hard to see it being used, I could see them building this massive LRT network with commuter service and it going to waste and it'll essentially become a smaller version of Philadelphia. Philly is a great example of what could be a great thing, but simply isn't. Then again, Philly is the most racially charged city in the northeast, so its hard to get some people to live in many areas of the city. And of course NYC is notorious for horrible suburban bus service.
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That's exactly my fear. The US has a habit of building great infrastructure and then gradually starving it of the operating funds it needs to be used properly. Again, let's hope nobody decides all those mid-day frequencies are "unnecessary" because the trains aren't full.
 
gweed123 said:
I was over in Germany last May, and I stayed at a relative's place in one of the middle ring suburbs of Berlin, so the S-Bahn was the only rapid transit that went out that far (U-Bahn only goes into the inner ring suburbs). I guess a fair comparison would be Thornhill or something like that.

Having used the GO train from Burlington pretty frequently, I was blown away by how much better the S-Bahn is. The vehicle comfort level is about the same, as are the bare-bones nature of many of the stations. It was the frequency and the connectivity that really got me. No schedule needed, just show up and a train will be along in at most 10 minutes. Takes you right to the central station (Hauptbahnhof), where you can transfer to nearly every other S-Bahn line, as well as a couple U-Bahn lines (as well as inter-city rail). The overall experience was more like taking the subway here than taking the GO train, even though it was the same function that GO serves here.

The thing is, having this type of system, in terms of dollars per km, wouldn't really be that expensive, especially when compared with other rail projects. And it can be phased pretty well. Electrify everything inside of the City of Toronto, or just beyond (Long Branch, Cooksville, Bramlea, Downsview Park, Oriole, Agincourt, Pickering) in the first phases, so that you're running high frequency trains inside of Toronto. The rest of the lines would still have the current GO service, with enhanced GO REX service being gradually pushed further and further out.
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This is just what needs to happen in the GTA. Your observations are exactly what I noticed about Rome...a city not exactly known for innovative transit, but that aspect of their system impressed me. If GO service resembled the S-Bahn, complete with fare integration, nobody in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, or Mississauga would be demanding subway extensions. Subway expansion could be focused on the central city without triggering the downtown-vs-suburbs battles that are so incessant now. This is also why we need to look beyond North America for examples to use, since as the last few posts show, a truly integrated regional rapid transit system simply doesn't exist here. I'm encouraged by the Metrolinx plan, but it's happening too slowly.
 
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MisterF said:
This is just what needs to happen in the GTA. Your observations are exactly what I noticed about Rome...a city not exactly known for innovative transit, but that aspect of their system impressed me. If GO service resembled the S-Bahn, complete with fare integration, nobody in Richmond Hill, Vaughan, or Mississauga would be demanding subway extensions. Subway expansion could be focused on the central city without triggering the downtown-vs-suburbs battles that are so incessant now. This is also why we need to look beyond North America for examples to use, since as the last few posts show, a truly integrated regional rapid transit system simply doesn't exist here. I'm encouraged by the Metrolinx plan, but it's happening too slowly.
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Exactly. See the GO transit expansion thread, I just posted a map detailing exactly what I think GO expansion should look like.
 
Wait, they had a public naming competition for the name of the tunnel boring maching and the best they could come up with was 'Holey"

Wow. That's why you never involve the public in anything. :D
 
They should have called them both Yorky and Dorky since the train line goes to York Region and the process of bothering to name a tunnel machine is nerdy to say the least.
 
M II A II R II K said:
They should have called them both Yorky and Dorky since the train line goes to York Region and the process of bothering to name a tunnel machine is nerdy to say the least.
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It is pretty dorky, I agree. I think they should have gone with Mario & Luigi. They're both plumbers, and are pros at dealing with tubes.
 
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