Toronto Sherbourne Common, Canada's Sugar Beach, and the Water's Edge Promenade | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto | Teeple Architects

grey said:
That strikes me as a narrow view of tourism. Purpose-built entertainment "destinations" suggests (to me) lame corporate-sponsored music/food festivals. Culture and entertainment should materialize organically out of a sound, livable urban fabric or not at all, imo. You might as well build another sports stadium, otherwise. If you really want the city to impart a good impression with your tourist friends, tell them to board a ferry to the islands.
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It has nothing to do with impressing my friends and everything to do with creating a very urban, highly animated waterfront. I want it for my own selfish reasons, as I love great big cities, full of life. I love culture and creating destinations. I see these things in great cities that I travel to and I want some of that here. I think great cities need great attractions on their downtown waterfronts. It just adds to their status. Some people might not like the carnival vibe of Fishermen's Wharf but you can't deny that it adds value to San Francisco. There is a reason why tourists all over the world flock to that area and spend millions. And NO, I am not advocation we build Fishermen's Wharf in Toronto. I'm just suggesting that a tourism focused/entertainment & culture destination would be great for for the city and ME! I love those kinds of places.

Centre Island? That's exactly the opposite of what I want. Keep the passive parkland on the islands, I want culture, entertainment, gathering places and hyper animation.

If your mind is only limited lame corporate-sponsored music/food festivals, well, maybe you should develop your imagination a little because there are a whole lot of other options that are only limited if we let them be. It doesn't have to take one form or another. You just need to save a few places where possibilities can develop. Once someone takes that first step, these things tend to take off. Our waterfront is too valuable to turn it into just another residential area with a few offices. It should fill a higher purpose. We need to take our own leisure and tourism more seriously in this city.
 
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"Save a few places where possibilities can develop" seems like our weird habit of districtizing entertainment. Cordoning off an area and saying "This is Where Entertainment is Permitted to Happen" will never be as successful as, like, Trinity Bellwoods, the Brickworks, or a neighbourhood street festival. The waterfront and East Bayfront are already on track to have places conductive to culture and entertainment. That will happen anywhere given time, as long as bylaws don't prevent them from doing so. Limiting it to a specific place only detracts from urban, animated streets you claim to desire.
 
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Most tourists are lame and that's why they flock to boring places like FW in SF or Old Montreal. In Toronto, smart tourists would be checking out the numerous residential neighbourhoods with history, red brick Victorian homes, old churches and interesting cafes etc.

We don't want a dumb waterfront for dumb people like the Fords.

Torontovibe: You want to see cultural gathering spaces in Toronto?

I'll tell you a secret: Toronto's hippest 'hood for that is Bloor & Lansdowne and St Helen's. Toronto's dullest 'hoods are where there's condos everywhere and programmed events.
 
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Bad Bear said:
And that's how you got $300 million on budget deficit, I guess.

Do we need a nice monumental park in Toronto? Maybe. Do we need to spend half of a billion for said park? Nope.
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Welp, that's what separates the world class cities from the not so world class IMO. I wish there was more attention given to the city's public realm.
 
There should be more respect for the public realm by Torontonians. Quit using it as a garbage dump.

There's no need for more park space when we've got insane amounts already on the watefront/islands/etc.

Maybe we need a pedestrian bridge to the islands to make it more accessible.
 
TheKingEast said:
Welp, that's what separates the world class cities from the not so world class IMO. I wish there was more attention given to the city's public realm.
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There's already some revitalization project for some of the most important parks like Queen's Park. Granted, it won't be Millennium Park but Toronto isn't Chicago and I'm personally fine with that.
 
Bad Bear said:
There's already some revitalization project for some of the most important parks like Queen's Park. Granted, it won't be Millennium Park but Toronto isn't Chicago and I'm personally fine with that.
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Well, I'm not asking for Toronto to be like Chicago. Just wish there was more attention paid to the public areas of the city. We can learn from other cities...no shame in that. Other cities can learn from us in some ways as well.
 
I understand what Torontovibe is trying to say about a tourist attraction.

I definitely think we are doing the right steps with our waterfront thanks to WT. However, the Exhibition Grounds and Ontario Place offer an opportunity to do something special, on the scale of Millennium Park.

I'll quote myself from the Ontario Place thread from a while back:

WislaHD said:
I always said that if we want to be a world-class city, than we would have to make Ontario Place a world class attraction.

It needs to be somewhere where tourists can spend the entire day there and not be bored, somewhere where Torontonians and Ontarians can spend the day or evening year-round, it needs to have events and attractions simultaneously for several demographics, it needs to have access to the now clean Lake Ontario water, it needs to have an excellent and vibrant restaurant scene and complimenting art and urban spaces, and it needs to have rapid transit (WWLRT) connecting it to downtown.

Being younger than most of you I don't remember Ontario Place the way it was in the 80s or 90s, but I spent many summers as a child there in the 2000's and I remember it being a very great time. I would love it for future generations of Torontonians/Ontarians and the many many tourists that come to Toronto to experience the same and more. To me, Ontario Place symbolizes the world class city Toronto can become.
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Toronto lacks that kind of attraction. While I agree with the current growth plan of the Waterfront, I think we can offer tourists in Toronto (and also residents) more than just Victorian houses (yawn) and the Eaton Centre.
 
Not meaning to be rude but why is this in the high-rise development thread. Wouldn't this thread be better in neighbourhood threads?
 
TheKingEast said:
Welp, that's what separates the world class cities from the not so world class IMO. I wish there was more attention given to the city's public realm.
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Exactly there's a reason the park in Chicago got rave reviews from around the world. When last did we hear any park in Toronto getting rave reviews worldwide...
 
WislaHD said:
I understand what Torontovibe is trying to say about a tourist attraction.

I definitely think we are doing the right steps with our waterfront thanks to WT. However, the Exhibition Grounds and Ontario Place offer an opportunity to do something special, on the scale of Millennium Park.

I'll quote myself from the Ontario Place thread from a while back:



Toronto lacks that kind of attraction. While I agree with the current growth plan of the Waterfront, I think we can offer tourists in Toronto (and also residents) more than just Victorian houses (yawn) and the Eaton Centre.
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Our attraction is glass box condos!
 
grey said:
That strikes me as a narrow view of tourism. Purpose-built entertainment "destinations" suggests (to me) lame corporate-sponsored music/food festivals. Culture and entertainment should materialize organically out of a sound, livable urban fabric or not at all, imo. You might as well build another sports stadium, otherwise. If you really want the city to impart a good impression with your tourist friends, tell them to board a ferry to the islands.
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This is a narrow view too. 'Tourist sites' come in all shapes and sizes, they aren't all lame and corporate. For every Fisherman's Wharf/Navy Pier there's a Tate Modern or a Sydney Opera House. Successful purpose-built destinations can rejuvenate vast areas and stimulate all sorts of spin-offs. The Toronto waterfront is turning into an amazing place but it really could use a landmark destination of some sort.

... and this isn't to replace the more organic form of tourism you describe but only to complement it, the one feeding the other.
 
I'm not really understanding what the complaint here is vis a vis comparisons like Fisherman's Wharf / Navy Pier / Millennium Park. The central waterfront in Toronto keeps adding public spaces and amenities and is just as touristy and programmed as the above examples.

Furthermore, at some point you could make a strong argument that Toronto's central waterfront is not only just as touristy and programmed, it is also more integrated into the city, authentic (in the sense that more and more people actually live in the area and go there for school and employment) and has more long-term potential since it is continuously expanding and upgrading.

I mean you could always add a few big art installations or a pritzker style "attraction" or pavilion, sure. Is that what is required to put these discussions to rest? It's doors open today so why don't we actually go down there and take a look at what is there now and under construction. I think the psychological mindset of the City reflected here is that the waterfront is still like it was in 1975.
 
TrickyRicky said:
I'm not really understanding what the complaint here is vis a vis comparisons like Fisherman's Wharf / Navy Pier / Millennium Park. The central waterfront in Toronto keeps adding public spaces and amenities and is just as touristy and programmed as the above examples.

Furthermore, at some point you could make a strong argument that Toronto's central waterfront is not only just as touristy and programmed, it is also more integrated into the city, authentic (in the sense that more and more people actually live in the area and go there for school and employment) and has more long-term potential since it is continuously expanding and upgrading.

I mean you could always add a few big art installations or a pritzker style "attraction" or pavilion, sure. Is that what is required to put these discussions to rest? It's doors open today so why don't we actually go down there and take a look at what is there now and under construction. I think the psychological mindset of the City reflected here is that the waterfront is still like it was in 1975.
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I'm not really understanding why anyone on UT would want to 'put these discussions to rest'? It's sort of why we're here.

The waterfront is not 'finished'. It is evolving, which is exciting... so sure, let's dream about big art installations or an amazing modern art gallery in repurposed silos, or a museum of Toronto in an iconic waterfront building, or an amazing waterfront plaza, or whatever you can think of... bring it on! Forgive us if this is insufferable to you or comes off as whining or negative in any way.
 
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