Toronto Rogers Centre Renovations | ?m | ?s | Toronto Blue Jays | Populous

[Mercenary]

Toronto is not a football city. The failed buffalo bills experiment along with the argos prove that.

Buffalo Bills experiment failed because Rogers charged extremely high ticket prices.

It was cheaper for many Toronto fans to drive to Buffalo and watch the game there.

Toronto is most definately a Football city. No one cares about the Argos because most people don't really care about the CFL. It's second tier talent.

It's like the WNBA. Just because no one goes to their games doesn't mean people won't watch the NBA.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Anyways, let's get back into topic - which isn't whether there is a future for a NFL team here.

MoD

 

[C-mac]

With $250M this seems like they're just extending the life for another 10-15 years while they plan something bigger in the long term.

Realistically, I can see seat replacements and the realignment of the 100 level concourse, with perhaps better integration of the 100 level outfield. Anything else would likely be for aesthetics.

Yeah like 250 million doesn't even seem enough to bring it to where it needs to be.

 

[Amare]

On a side note congrats to condo owners to the West of Rogers Centre. Your view will not be blocked at least not yet!

If this city was smart, it would've protected lands for future replacement stadiums for both the Rogers Centre and Scotiabank Arena. But Toronto doesnt really think that way, so that ship has sailed.

Any new replacement stadium would either have to be located outside the downtown core, or (if built in the core) the teams inhabiting any of those said stadiums would be displaced for 4-5 years.

 

[jcam]

Yeah, I know - I don't know why I said there's nowhere to put it. I meant more, I don't think there's an appetite here for a second stadium. That's really an American thing, to have like a full baseball stadium next door to a football stadium etc.

Like I said, not impossible but I think very, very unlikely.

Agree very unlikely, but someone asked me how we might do an Olympics bid awhile back and I did this quick-and-dirty Google Earth cut and paste

with London's stadium.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Yeah like 250 million doesn't even seem enough to bring it to where it needs to be.

Do any of us really have a sense of that?
The building is 30 years old but I would say all the "bones" are in very good shape. It's not like you get a shiver up your spine walking into the washrooms - they look brand new. The concourse areas aren't as open or varied as new stadium designs but they are still in good shape. You're not dodging leaky pipes or weird mouldy corners or anything like that.

The extra detail that came out yesterday suggested the priority is completely redoing the lower bowl, which makes sense. Better material for the seats and having them all pointing to the infield will make a big difference. Maybe they an even gut the rows and have a steeper rake? Other than that, my big ask would be anything they can do to open it to outside. Maybe it's taking out some of the north wall, maybe it's a glass roof; I'm open to suggestions. I've never had $250M so I don't know what you can do with it, but probably a fair bit (especially if that's not counting stuff being done now, like the new scoreboard).

And, yes, the 2008 Olympics bid included a stadium in the portlands. It can be done, in terms of the space. Clearly it wasn't worth moving out there for Rogers now and a lot of things will have to fall into place to make it worthwhile for an NFL franchise.

 

[UrbanOzz]

$250mm? can't do much. i suppose they should prioritize re-aligning the 100 level seating towards home plate, cut out some concrete and pop in some windows.

i would love them to knock out all the levels in the outfield except the 100 level, get rid of the hotel (probably requires a buy out), and put up a giant wall of glass. To me, trying to replicate what Miller Park would do the trick but i don't think $250mm would get us there.

this is rogers though, 80% of the funds will go towards corporate suites and other features most of us won't see.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Do any of us really have a sense of that?
The building is 30 years old but I would say all the "bones" are in very good shape. It's not like you get a shiver up your spine walking into the washrooms - they look brand new. The concourse areas aren't as open or varied as new stadium designs but they are still in good shape. You're not dodging leaky pipes or weird mouldy corners or anything like that.

The extra detail that came out yesterday suggested the priority is completely redoing the lower bowl, which makes sense. Better material for the seats and having them all pointing to the infield will make a big difference. Maybe they an even gut the rows and have a steeper rake? Other than that, my big ask would be anything they can do to open it to outside. Maybe it's taking out some of the north wall, maybe it's a glass roof; I'm open to suggestions. I've never had $250M so I don't know what you can do with it, but probably a fair bit (especially if that's not counting stuff being done now, like the new scoreboard).

And, yes, the 2008 Olympics bid included a stadium in the portlands. It can be done, in terms of the space. Clearly it wasn't worth moving out there for Rogers now and a lot of things will have to fall into place to make it worthwhile for an NFL franchise.

Just an OT - the stadium for the 2008 Olympics bid would have been where the new mouth of the Don is now - and most of that land is publicly owned. I don't see *any* appetite for public land to be given out for cheap now to any stadium proponent now given the hugely different economic/social circumstances. The rationale behind choice of renovation vs. building a new stadium pretty much spoke to that issue.

AoD

 

[C-mac]

Do any of us really have a sense of that?
The building is 30 years old but I would say all the "bones" are in very good shape. It's not like you get a shiver up your spine walking into the washrooms - they look brand new. The concourse areas aren't as open or varied as new stadium designs but they are still in good shape. You're not dodging leaky pipes or weird mouldy corners or anything like that.

The extra detail that came out yesterday suggested the priority is completely redoing the lower bowl, which makes sense. Better material for the seats and having them all pointing to the infield will make a big difference. Maybe they an even gut the rows and have a steeper rake? Other than that, my big ask would be anything they can do to open it to outside. Maybe it's taking out some of the north wall, maybe it's a glass roof; I'm open to suggestions. I've never had $250M so I don't know what you can do with it, but probably a fair bit (especially if that's not counting stuff being done now, like the new scoreboard).

And, yes, the 2008 Olympics bid included a stadium in the portlands. It can be done, in terms of the space. Clearly it wasn't worth moving out there for Rogers now and a lot of things will have to fall into place to make it worthwhile for an NFL franchise.

I guess your right, but 250 million just doesn't seem like it's enough to do a "retro-fit", whatever that even means. They're actually saying a new stadium isn't off the table, but because of how long it's going to take, they decided to do major reno's in the interim.

 

[C-mac]

$250mm? can't do much. i suppose they should prioritize re-aligning the 100 level seating towards home plate, cut out some concrete and pop in some windows.

i would love them to knock out all the levels in the outfield except the 100 level, get rid of the hotel (probably requires a buy out), and put up a giant wall of glass. To me, trying to replicate what Miller Park would do the trick but i don't think $250mm would get us there.

this is rogers though, 80% of the funds will go towards corporate suites and other features most of us won't see.

I agree, the whole issue is the concrete walls are way to high. The whole upper deck needs to come down and everything you said about the outfield is bang on. I don't see 250 million getting that done but we'll see I guess..

 

[JoeParez]

$250mm? can't do much. i suppose they should prioritize re-aligning the 100 level seating towards home plate, cut out some concrete and pop in some windows.

i would love them to knock out all the levels in the outfield except the 100 level, get rid of the hotel (probably requires a buy out), and put up a giant wall of glass. To me, trying to replicate what Miller Park would do the trick but i don't think $250mm would get us there.

this is rogers though, 80% of the funds will go towards corporate suites and other features most of us won't see.

Yes you can.
You have to take into account what''s already been done at the Rogers Centre leading up to this.

The concourse was opened up, the Flight Deck was done, the roof and its mechanisms were repaired. Some big ticket items have already been taken care of.
The building structurally is in good shape considering it's 30 years old.

$250 million, if you're realistic, can get you a good bang for your buck, as long as you don't fiddle with anything structurally. Like let's be honest a lakeview isn't going to happen, neither are translucent roof panels or real grass.
So instead of bitching and moaning about what we know isn't going to happen, why don't we discuss what could happen?

For me, I'd like to see the alignment of the seats to be more like a traditional baseball field, maybe even if they can remove or space out the seats so you're not rubbing up to the person beside you.
One eyesore that I'm not sure can be done on the budget is a reno of the bull pen area. I hate seeing the work and emergency vehicles in centre field. I'd love to see a centre field bull pen and the outfield seats pushed forward to meet the outfield wall.
But that might be a lot of work.

Edit: @UrbanOzz -- I wasn't talking to you specifically, just used your post as the example.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Yes you can.
You have to take into account what''s already been done at the Rogers Centre leading up to this.

The concourse was opened up, the Flight Deck was done, the roof and its mechanisms were repaired. Some big ticket items have already been taken care of.
The building structurally is in good shape considering it's 30 years old

Edit: @UrbanOzz -- I wasn't talking to you specifically, just used your post as the example.

That's what I was gonna say. Brand new scoreboard, flight deck, dirt infield, new turf etc etc. Lots of stuff already done over the past few years. And, in particular, the article that broke the story specifically mentioned that the 300-level suites were upgraded in 2019 (which means they're basically brand new).

So, far be it from me to be anything less than cynical about Rogers but I think $250M is ample budget to do a lot of the stuff we think (and they certainly know!) needs to be done.

 

[JoeParez]

. And, in particular, the article that broke the story specifically mentioned that the 300-level suites were upgraded in 2019 (which means they're basically brand new).

Ahh! I knew they were! But I was doubting my aging brain. So I didn't mention it.
Probably could have Googled it.

 

[C-mac]

So instead of bitching and moaning about what we know isn't going to happen, why don't we discuss what could happen?

I think the die hard Jays fan have right to bitch and moan about the fan experience. We put our hard earn dollars into this team, and we're stuck with what's widely considered about the 3rd worst stadium in baseball behind Tampa and Oakland. So when you find out they're putting 250 million into renos as opposed to a new stadium, one has to be skeptical about how far that money can stretch in terms what's needed to create a better fan experience.

 

[Richard White]

I think the die hard Jays fan have right to bitch and moan about the fan experience. We put our hard earn dollars into this team, and we're stuck with what's widely considered about the 3rd worst stadium in baseball behind Tampa and Oakland. So when you find out they're putting 250 million into renos as opposed to a new stadium, one has to be skeptical about how far that money can stretch in terms what's need to create a better fan experience.

Honestly, at some point they will need to build a new stadium. There are only so many ways to modify the stadium to give a better fan experience. How many times have they done that already?