scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Isn't the whole point of the TRL renovation (the glass cube, anyway) to add a Starbuckian coffee shop to the entrance, thereby "meeting the street" better?
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Isn't the whole point of the TRL renovation (the glass cube, anyway) to add a Starbuckian coffee shop to the entrance, thereby "meeting the street" better?
condovo
Senior Member
Well, that's not very nice now, is it? How I've presented my arguments may not be up to your standards but calling me amateur while knowing nothing of my background is rather presumptuous. I'm sure if my views conformed to yours you wouldn't have labelled me as such. I suppose you're trying to imply that you're some sort of expert. Perhaps but, based on your posts here, one couldn't be certain.
Archivist
Senior Member
Condovo, I take your point and you must feel a bit beseiged. What I would encourage you to do is to let up a little bit, walk over to the library and watch the people going about their business and be elevated and even touched by the surroundings. In order to enjoy the city you live in more fully, simply to let loose a little and admire the imperfectness of our city and it's buildings.
Be very wary of shooting around the web and looking at the ooh-la-la of everywhere and feeling we are so far behind, etc. Trust me, it's pretty much as imperfect everywhere, and architectural websites and magazines are the worst, worst, worst bunches of bullshit you could ever imagine. (On a side note, I was in Dubai recently and found that within the shadows of their many majestic towers there were streets with dirt sidewalks and chickens running around on them. I have photos. Would you, or did you, ever hear that before? Not that Dubai is usually held up as an architectural exemplar - but it is frequently discussed as if it is a modern wunderkind).
Best to let those standards relax a little and take the ordinary pleasures that life offers. I think if you give the TRL a chance, you might actually like something about it. Your points about how it meets Yonge Street are understandable, I myself do not like the overhang and the remote feeling it gives to the street, especially in the context of a busy and viable commercial street. Certainly, moderating your views would be a benefit for you, instead of making yourself crazy with the feeling that everyone out there has great things happening and we don't.
Though I (and adma, in our own ways) have come on strong, I think the message is essentially a positive one.
Be very wary of shooting around the web and looking at the ooh-la-la of everywhere and feeling we are so far behind, etc. Trust me, it's pretty much as imperfect everywhere, and architectural websites and magazines are the worst, worst, worst bunches of bullshit you could ever imagine. (On a side note, I was in Dubai recently and found that within the shadows of their many majestic towers there were streets with dirt sidewalks and chickens running around on them. I have photos. Would you, or did you, ever hear that before? Not that Dubai is usually held up as an architectural exemplar - but it is frequently discussed as if it is a modern wunderkind).
Best to let those standards relax a little and take the ordinary pleasures that life offers. I think if you give the TRL a chance, you might actually like something about it. Your points about how it meets Yonge Street are understandable, I myself do not like the overhang and the remote feeling it gives to the street, especially in the context of a busy and viable commercial street. Certainly, moderating your views would be a benefit for you, instead of making yourself crazy with the feeling that everyone out there has great things happening and we don't.
Though I (and adma, in our own ways) have come on strong, I think the message is essentially a positive one.
Archivist
Senior Member
Oh, and also.
There are not nearly enough elevators. And the staircase, while beautiful and elegant, seems like it's at the wrong end of the building somehow, or remote, and after a day of research I hate the choice of waiting forever for an elevator or taking the roundabout method of the staircase. Both offer views and thrills, but as means of getting around they can be very frustrating.
But woe betide the person who wants to rip them out. Aren't they planning an added elevator, though?
There are not nearly enough elevators. And the staircase, while beautiful and elegant, seems like it's at the wrong end of the building somehow, or remote, and after a day of research I hate the choice of waiting forever for an elevator or taking the roundabout method of the staircase. Both offer views and thrills, but as means of getting around they can be very frustrating.
But woe betide the person who wants to rip them out. Aren't they planning an added elevator, though?
Jayomatic
Active Member
Don't worry Condovo, I sympathize with you. Anytime someone posts pictures of grand projects around the world they are contantly called amateur and guilty of reading too many design magazines. Your only pointing out that Canadians should hope for more and maybe something inspiring. Personally i've never visited or wanted to go to the TRL. From the pictures I've seen it looks very clinical and sterile and not inviting at all. Now if we had something like Seattle's, I would visit it just as a place of relaxation and curiosity and I'm sure many others would as well for the same purpose.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Thankfully, Ray Moriyama's fine library didn't take as long to build as Sandy Wilson's British Library. Wilson referred to the project as his "Thirty Years War" - coincidentally the same phrase Richard Bradshaw used to describe the campaign to build our opera house.
Archivist
Senior Member
Definitely jayomatic, great advice. Don't even bother to go because it looks clinical, stay in your room and surf the web, in your virtual world that is better than the real one could be.
Condovo, apply's jay's argument to human relationships and see where it will take you. Better, always, to get down and dirty than stay virtually above the fray.
Condovo, apply's jay's argument to human relationships and see where it will take you. Better, always, to get down and dirty than stay virtually above the fray.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Jayo:
Normally I'd be sympathetic to this argument, but not this case. When the TRL was built, it was sited specifically to encourage ease of usage by patrons - i.e. at the junction of two subway lines. In addition, the exterior of the building - particularly the use of expansive brick surfaces is the result of community consultation - the original proposal is supposed to be a "scaleless box clad entirely in mirrored glass". No doubt it'd be neat to look at, but the library listened to its' patrons and community. Faulting them on how they didn't deliever an architectural masterpiece when it's the very thing that wasn't wanted is a tad unfair, to say the least (for more information, check out the entry on the project in Dendy, W., & Kilbourn, W. (1986). Toronto Observed. Its Architecture, Patrons and History. Toronto: Oxford University Press.)
There is also a philosophical issue here - should every building somehow package itself to sell an image to the public regardless of what effects that has on mandate of the organization? This reminded me of something very suburban - glarish signage for fast food outlets in the suburbs - attract people visually - what we sell is secondary.
AoD
Normally I'd be sympathetic to this argument, but not this case. When the TRL was built, it was sited specifically to encourage ease of usage by patrons - i.e. at the junction of two subway lines. In addition, the exterior of the building - particularly the use of expansive brick surfaces is the result of community consultation - the original proposal is supposed to be a "scaleless box clad entirely in mirrored glass". No doubt it'd be neat to look at, but the library listened to its' patrons and community. Faulting them on how they didn't deliever an architectural masterpiece when it's the very thing that wasn't wanted is a tad unfair, to say the least (for more information, check out the entry on the project in Dendy, W., & Kilbourn, W. (1986). Toronto Observed. Its Architecture, Patrons and History. Toronto: Oxford University Press.)
There is also a philosophical issue here - should every building somehow package itself to sell an image to the public regardless of what effects that has on mandate of the organization? This reminded me of something very suburban - glarish signage for fast food outlets in the suburbs - attract people visually - what we sell is secondary.
AoD
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Oh, and it's quite ironic that one should pick on the TPL on the issue of architecture - considering their branch renovations program has been remarked by critics and users alike by the high architectural quality. Choice examples include:
Eatonville Library (Teeple Architects)
Pape/Danforth Library (Hariri Pontarini Architects)
Malvern Public Library (Phillip H. Carter Architect and Kingsland & Architects Inc)
Bloor Gladstone Library (Ralh and Szarch), etc, etc.
AoD
Eatonville Library (Teeple Architects)
Pape/Danforth Library (Hariri Pontarini Architects)
Malvern Public Library (Phillip H. Carter Architect and Kingsland & Architects Inc)
Bloor Gladstone Library (Ralh and Szarch), etc, etc.
AoD
Observer Walt
Senior Member
^ Alvin's most recent point especially is well taken, I go past the Eatonville branch regularly, and have been in. It's a nice building, standing out as a new andmark in its 1960s neighbourhood.
Also check out the branch on Bloor just east of Runnymede, a historic building (actually featured on a Canadian postage stamp a few years ago) with a great new addition about three years ago.
The Toronto Library has somehow managed to renovate and expand quite a few branches, and build a few from the ground up, in recent years in spite of the fiscal constraints of the city.
As for the Reference Library, IMO it's a fairly attractive building. It could use a revamp to improve the way it addresses Yonge Street, as already mentioned, and definitely at least one more elevator. But it is respectful to its surroundings, especially on the east side.
Also check out the branch on Bloor just east of Runnymede, a historic building (actually featured on a Canadian postage stamp a few years ago) with a great new addition about three years ago.
The Toronto Library has somehow managed to renovate and expand quite a few branches, and build a few from the ground up, in recent years in spite of the fiscal constraints of the city.
As for the Reference Library, IMO it's a fairly attractive building. It could use a revamp to improve the way it addresses Yonge Street, as already mentioned, and definitely at least one more elevator. But it is respectful to its surroundings, especially on the east side.
junctionist
Senior Member
The library at Jane and Dundas was also renovated and was supposed to reopen in the fall of 2007, but due to the budget meltdown, it still hasn't reopened.
Condovo is right about how we ought to demand better architecture. This renovation will add a glass cube, that as others have observed blocks the sloped glass facade element. That's hardly groundbreaking and perhaps a step backwards.
Condovo is right about how we ought to demand better architecture. This renovation will add a glass cube, that as others have observed blocks the sloped glass facade element. That's hardly groundbreaking and perhaps a step backwards.
adma
Superstar
Basically, you've voided your argument by admitting that you've never visited or wanted to go there--which, if you're a UT regular who lives in the GTA, is absolutely appalling, doubly so if you're still willing to pass judgment. I mean, "clinical and sterile and not inviting at all"? Are we talking about the same building? I can imagine your describing Robarts or the Scott Library at York in such terms--but TRL?!? It's a classic 70s Moriyama public interior at its coziest! (And have you been to any of those other starchitecture libraries--Koolhaas et al? Ultimately, as objects to be experienced, are they necessarily any less "clinical and sterile", all things considered? Especially given how they're products of a more high-tech age in library science? When TRL opened, it was still an age of card catalogues and [at most] microfiche, you know.)
But in cases like this, it's a dipstick kind of hope. It's where the "grand projects" are little different from postcard views of the Parthenon or the Eiffel Tower, "gee whiz, I wish Toronto had that sort of stuff". It's like, going cross-country by plane, it's all "oooh! aaah!" over the Rockies and "zzzzz" over the Prairies. Look, it's fine to "hope for more", but not at naively unnecessary expense. "Something inspiring"? Well, re my plane anecdote, anyone who fails to see anything inspiring in the Prairies is a few hundred k's short of a Trans-Canada. Indeed, it's truly un-Canadian.
Besides, remember how the "hope for more and maybe something inspiring" may differ according to the beholder. After all, to a JoeRoe, "inspiring" might mean back to the future: the Koffler Centre rather than Koolhaas...
Jayomatic
Active Member
Actually after finding some pictures online the interior doesn't look as bland as I had pictured. The exterior is another matter but hopefully the renovation solves some of that.
They could use a larger sign or larger windows for a glimpse of what can be found inside.
They could use a larger sign or larger windows for a glimpse of what can be found inside.
smuncky
Senior Member
i suggest you visit the library before you pass such judgement on it.
i've never been in it until i went it during nuit blanche. it was very stunning inside. can't say enough about those stairs even though they might not be the best for circulation as previously mentioned.
i've never been in it until i went it during nuit blanche. it was very stunning inside. can't say enough about those stairs even though they might not be the best for circulation as previously mentioned.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Toronto has an excellent library system - in spite of the fact that it does not have the desired ultra-grand building to house a portion of its collection. While the TRL building is not one of my favourite buildings on the outside, it is still quite impressive, comfortable and functional on the inside. Those things really matter in a library.