Toronto Rail Deck Development | 239.43m | 72s | LIUNA | Sweeny &Co

[junctionist]

What kind of park could even be built on a deck? Every generation, the trees will have to be cut down to rehabilitate the deck.

A better option, in my opinion, would be to enclose the tracks in concrete tunnel piping and then bury the corridor with fill. You could presumably plant trees on that, which would never have to be cut down to maintain the deck structure.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

...so I guess they ditched the Orcinus branding for something more relevant?

 

[AlbertC]

...so I guess they ditched the Orcinus branding for something more relevant?

There can only be one Orca. (No matter how unsightly it is)

 

[interchange42]

What kind of park could even be built on a deck? Every generation, the trees will have to be cut down to rehabilitate the deck.

A better option, in my opinion, would be to enclose the tracks in concrete tunnel piping and then bury the corridor with fill. You could presumably plant trees on that, which would never have to be cut down to maintain the deck structure.

Agreed; there's got to be a better way to do it than the scrape and restart method that took what, two full years at College Park, or was it even more? The bigger deal is having to do it at all, let alone how long it took though…

42

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Agreed; there's got to be a better way to do it than the scrape and restart method that took what, two full years at College Park, or was it even more? The bigger deal is having to do it at all, let alone how long it took though…

42

I dunno, unlike College Park, you can design the deck so it can be rehabbed from below (especially depending what they do with the planned parking in that "dead" space. With adequate soil volumes above and proper infrastructure below, I don't see why anyone would have to be particularly concerned about it.

 

[TossYourJacket]

My worry would be - we get condos on all these blocks, but no Park at all.

100% this is what will happen.

 

[Big Daddy]

As illogical as it is, I still can't understand how people would prefer a large void of a rail corridor over more housing with a (albeit poorly designed) privately funded park. This is said when especially considering what $1bn of taxpayer money could do elsewhere in the city. Would we really rather wait 20+ years to *maybe* see a city-built rail deck park?

This is the city’s last opportunity to build a park in this our growing downtown. Imagine New York without its iconic Central Park. They had the foresight to build a park when certainly they were faced with developers and others who would have preferred more housing or office space. Housing is important but we can’t neglect humanity’s need for open space - especially in a vast urban area. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity - I hope they can put it together.

 

[Northern Light]

I can't resist pointing something out.........

This is the size of central park, overlaid onto to downtown Toronto:

Obviously the dimensions aren't identical, but I tried to mimic central park by following roads and maintaining something close to the 5:1 ratio of length over width.

But the km2 is identical to Central Park.

Size differential:

Central Park: 843 acres

Rail Deck Park: 20 acres

Size difference ~ 42x

 

[isaidso]

Size differential:

Central Park: 843 acres

Rail Deck Park: 20 acres

Size difference ~ 42x

Quite right but I doubt anyone is saying Toronto's own 'Central Park' expecting anything that size. It's said to represent the fact that we have NO sizeable downtown park and this is our very last opportunity to build one. They are 100% correct. This is our very last chance.

The arguments that it's just not possible are, of course, rubbish. Of course it's possible. But it requires stubborn persistence, creative solutions, a common vision, and the political will to see it through. Great things never come easily. History will not look kindly on our generation if we let this last chance opportunity slip through our fingers.

 

[Northern Light]

Quite right but I doubt anyone is saying Toronto's own 'Central Park' expecting anything that size. It's said to represent the fact that we have NO sizeable downtown park and this is our very last opportunity to build one. They are 100% correct.

Ummm.

If one measured the distance from the heart of Lower Manhattan or 'downtown NYC' to the nearest lip of Central park, its a distance of 7.4km

If one measured from City Hall, along Queen Street, to the edge of High Park, the distance is 5.9km

I do think we need to have some sense of perspective here.

The arguments that it's just not possible are, of course, rubbish.

As noted, High Park is already closer to downtown Toronto, than is Central Park to the heart of Lower Manhattan.

Of course it's possible. But it requires stubborn persistence, creative solutions, a common vision, and the political will to see it through. Great things never come easily. History will not look kindly on our generation if we let this last chance opportunity slip through our fingers.

I just don't think a relatively small park, sitting on a concrete deck, where no tree will ever get to maturity, and with challenging topography and access is all that high a priority.

I love parks, but this just does not strike me as the proverbial hill to die on.

If we want another large park downtown, the Don Valley is the best comparator to High Park.

Simply improve its green ribbon along and into the core, by removing Bayview south of Gerrard; extend its table land up by redeveloping the apartments (which need it) at River/Gerrard/Oak etc and having them
meet River/Gerrard, with the lands in behind becoming valley park space; and then, if you're feeling really ambitious, remove Rosedale Valley Road to the north and daylight Castlefrank Creek through the valley.

You'd get more net new usable hectares of parkland, and when considered with remaining valleys lands would be vastly larger than Central Park.

OR

Consider turning the Island Airport into a park for a 200 acre gain that's vastly cheaper and produces much better quality park space.

OR

By my admittedly crude math, we could add over 100 acres* to High Park, including land acquisition, demolition, backfill, infrastructure removal and restoration for about the same money.

* Includes current Rennie Park, and land occupied by steep slopes as well as current roads, in addition to acquired lots.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Our failure as a city comes when we try to compare our assets including parks to other cities in the envy. That is, we're wanting to be something we're clearly not nor should be. So I am all for this rail deck park however it is manifested. But singing we're New York City Boys for putting it there because it's more closer to the core or something is laughable at best...Central Park it is not. Nor will it be. Not even Hudson Yards. So let's just not compare.

 

[thaivic]

Consider turning the Island Airport into a park for a 200 acre gain that's vastly cheaper and produces much better quality park space.

Great idea but unfortunately TPA won't buy in, another way to increase parkland would be to infill some of the lake from the Sugar refinery to just before the Airport, we could create a big linear park with canals, we can bring one section close enough to the Islands so they can build a bicycle and pedestrian bridge to have easy access to Islands. I know that's a pipe dream, the area that exists now is all lake fill. IMO the Island are under utilized..

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Great idea but unfortunately TPA won't buy in, another way to increase parkland would be to infill some of the lake from the Sugar refinery to just before the Airport, we could create a big linear park with canals, we can bring one section close enough to the Islands so they can build a bicycle and pedestrian bridge to have easy access to Islands. I know that's a pipe dream, the area that exists now is all lake fill. IMO the Island are under utilized..

The TWBTA proposal for the WT Central waterfront competition sort of envisioned that:

Toronto Central Waterfront Design Competition / Concours de design pour le front de mer central de Toronto, Tod Williams Billie Tsien / Martinez Lapena - Torres , Canadian Competitions Catalogue / Catalogue des Concours Canadiens

Toronto Central Waterfront Design Competition / Concours de design pour le front de mer central de Toronto, Tod Williams Billie Tsien / Martinez Lapena - Torres , Moteur de recherche sur les concours d'architecture au Canada depuis 1945. Search engine on architectural competitions in Canada...

www.ccc.umontreal.ca

They of course didn't win the competition...

AoD

 

[evandyk]

Quite right but I doubt anyone is saying Toronto's own 'Central Park' expecting anything that size. It's said to represent the fact that we have NO sizeable downtown park and this is our very last opportunity to build one. They are 100% correct. This is our very last chance.

The arguments that it's just not possible are, of course, rubbish. Of course it's possible. But it requires stubborn persistence, creative solutions, a common vision, and the political will to see it through. Great things never come easily. History will not look kindly on our generation if we let this last chance opportunity slip through our fingers.

Once they close the island airport and build a bridge, we will finally have a beautiful, large and accessible downtown park.

Edit: Guess I should have read all the posts before contributing my own...

 

[milkycontent]

Great idea but unfortunately TPA won't buy in, another way to increase parkland would be to infill some of the lake from the Sugar refinery to just before the Airport, we could create a big linear park with canals, we can bring one section close enough to the Islands so they can build a bicycle and pedestrian bridge to have easy access to Islands. I know that's a pipe dream, the area that exists now is all lake fill. IMO the Island are under utilized..

What would it take to convince PortsToronto to budge on this? It's wild that building man made islands in the middle of the harbour seems more likely that just shutting down a frivolous airport. You'd think with all the Liberal ridings in Toronto that the city would have some sway with the feds. Maybe if the wealthy donor class actually cared about the public realm instead of protecting the "character" of their neighbourhoods we'd have a nicer city.