Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
adHominem
Senior Member
Artificial turf looks better in winter, it gets the message across to drivers that it's a no-go-zone, and maintenance would be lower. I think we'd miss out on the run-off absorption and heat-island mitigation effects of actual growing foliage but it might be a trade-off worth making in this instance?
jje1000
Senior Member
I wonder- how long would exposed artificial turf last in our weather? I can't imagine anything beyond 5 years before it starts showing its age (seams showing, colours fading, etc.).
adHominem
Senior Member
Good question. Plus how well does it hold up to outrageous amounts of salt and the occasional snowplow?
jje1000
Senior Member
I think that's the problem, that it'll look worn-out long before it actually becomes unusable.
I wonder if putting an widely-spaced row of bollards along the edge of the tracks might work to better signal that it's not a lane?
At the moment, I can definitely see how someone with a big SUV and who's unfamiliar with the area might run over the curb and think it's like the other streetcar tracks in the city. That Queens Quay West returns to a middle-lane configuration east of York doesn't help either with split-second decision-making.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
They could have tested out such materials on The Queensway months, years, or even decades ago. They just don't get the funds to do such research or testing.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Presentation from the July WT DRP on the QQE portion:
Broadly similar to QQW with some notable design changes.
AoD
Broadly similar to QQW with some notable design changes.
AoD
Northern Light
Superstar
From the above:
Key changes under consideration, that I like:
Greater biodiversity of tree species, consideration of shrubs/grasses in newly created beds.
Better quality of planting beds with larger volumes of soil, where possible
Allocating space to Bikeshare in the design
Considering alternate materials for around TTC tracks (not just concrete)
Improved and more visible management of storm and flood waters.
More visible separating of the MGT from the general walking space, including possible grade separation of 5cm.
Key questions:
Is non-paving a possible consideration for the TTC ROW?
(ballast, sedum, grass)
Which species are being considered for trees/shrubs/grasses?
W. K. Lis
Superstar
For Toronto's Transportation Department, it means concrete, no grass. The Transportation Department is still stuck in the 1960's.
Northern Light
Superstar
First time down to Queen's Quay in a bit.............
So I strolled Spadina to York last night as part of a bigger walk.
I of course, took some time to look over the trees.
I have some good news to report.
Not one of them is dying.
I would rate 8 trees out of the whole lot in the 'fair' category with a couple nudging towards 'poor'; but their health is salvageable.
The damage (crown-dieback) is likely a result of drought stress from that long rainless period in July.
Overall though, the vast majority of trees rate between good and excellent health with several in the latter category.
I would particularly commend those who take an interest in such things to make note of an interesting (to me) development.
The initial trees that failed, for a host of reasons, were all London Plane Trees.
Thus most of what you see now are other species.
But perhaps a dozen or so London Planes (in this section) survived the mass die off.
They are the most successful trees present and a great example of what the landscape architect's had been hoping for in the first place.
They are also an illustration of trees as individuals. What many cannot abide, some can shrug off; each tree is a bit different (unless they're clones)
There's one opposite Waterclub (south side) that is now as tall as or just above the height of the 3-storey podium.
So over 30ft Looking gorgeous.
Never been a big fan of the bark on London Planes which by nature looks like the tree is dying, even when its perfectly healthy. (peeling bark)
But the crowns/foliage look really nice on these.
Very promising in the years ahead.
I think sections of Queen's Quay will actually be under canopy in as little as 3-4 years, and provide a respite from the sun on a hot summer's day.
So I strolled Spadina to York last night as part of a bigger walk.
I of course, took some time to look over the trees.
I have some good news to report.
Not one of them is dying.
I would rate 8 trees out of the whole lot in the 'fair' category with a couple nudging towards 'poor'; but their health is salvageable.
The damage (crown-dieback) is likely a result of drought stress from that long rainless period in July.
Overall though, the vast majority of trees rate between good and excellent health with several in the latter category.
I would particularly commend those who take an interest in such things to make note of an interesting (to me) development.
The initial trees that failed, for a host of reasons, were all London Plane Trees.
Thus most of what you see now are other species.
But perhaps a dozen or so London Planes (in this section) survived the mass die off.
They are the most successful trees present and a great example of what the landscape architect's had been hoping for in the first place.
They are also an illustration of trees as individuals. What many cannot abide, some can shrug off; each tree is a bit different (unless they're clones)
There's one opposite Waterclub (south side) that is now as tall as or just above the height of the 3-storey podium.
So over 30ft Looking gorgeous.
Never been a big fan of the bark on London Planes which by nature looks like the tree is dying, even when its perfectly healthy. (peeling bark)
But the crowns/foliage look really nice on these.
Very promising in the years ahead.
I think sections of Queen's Quay will actually be under canopy in as little as 3-4 years, and provide a respite from the sun on a hot summer's day.
Northern Light
Superstar
The above said, I will tack on here that there a number of trees in Ann Tindal Park, on the south side of Queen's Quay that are in a heap of trouble.
Several have substantial dieback and are clearly severely stressed.
Some don't appear savable to me; while others may be.
Heat/drought are the most likely causes; but there could be others, including compaction.
I'm not sure how they're planting was handled under the green carpet and brick at their base.
Several have substantial dieback and are clearly severely stressed.
Some don't appear savable to me; while others may be.
Heat/drought are the most likely causes; but there could be others, including compaction.
I'm not sure how they're planting was handled under the green carpet and brick at their base.
allengeorge
Senior Member
Will the city handle replacement of the dying trees? What happens to those trees whose health is fair/poor/salvageable?
And, what caused the initial die-off of London plane trees?
And, what caused the initial die-off of London plane trees?
Northern Light
Superstar
The trees that die or are not salvageable will be replaced.
Generally the City requires a 2-year warranty from the nursery.
After that the City will eat the cost.
***
The London Planes died for 3 reasons, one, they weren't the best species choice overall, they were also planted at the wrong time of year, but most of all, salt damage.
Incorrect drainage.
Not sure, but I think they may have adopted a flushing program, which would make sense.
This is where salt is washed away w/high-power spray before spring melt takes hold, so it doesn't enter the soil.
(most salt doesn't enter soil in the winter, because the ground is frozen, though it may during a 'thaw'; period.)
But if you can wash off the sidewalks, and flush the hydration system built into many new trenches and pits, along with removing salty soils from around the tree before melt, you can reduce the damage.
smably
Senior Member
Great article! Thanks for the link. I didn't know about the different kinds of salt and their relative effects on street trees. Do you know what kind of salt the city uses?
Northern Light
Superstar
Most harmful: Sodium Chloride.
Though, in fairness to them, they are working with brines that use it in lower concentration.
Toronto's Salt Management Plan is here:
We are making some progress; but I feel that both the choice of what we apply and how could be improved significantly.
There are options in paving design which vastly reduce the need for salt.
The key is permeability, and appropriate drainage/filtration below the top layer.
The selective use of snow-melt systems would also make a huge difference.
As would machines that can apply salt much closer to the pavement....even the City's briners operate well off the ground.
A finale note would be that sloping (gentle and indiscernible to the typical human) can allow water to drain such that you get much less accumulation of ice.
But it means you electronic leveling of concrete/asphalt etc.
Humans just don't so subtle very well.