Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[Migos]

The pedestrian problem on the Waterfront Trail is insane. People just wander onto it without looking AT ALL. People are going to be seriously injured. There needs to be some police/crowd control in place on busy weekends at a minimum.

 

[Fred.S]

I think the basic problem is the intersection design. The mixed pedestrian/bike zone is a mess. I understand things get busy, and I appreciate that, but if the bike trail was perceived as a road by pedestrians, there would be a lot less people spilling onto it. They should've designed the trail pavement to continue right through the intersection, and lower it so there's a curb between it and the pedestrian space. People will perceive the trail and tracks more as a road if it's at a different grade and not the same pavement design as the pedestrian area. Add in some fencing to separate the areas as well near the intersection, and things would be much more orderly.

 

[PinkLucy]

A curb would do wonders. A visual but also a physical barrier.

 

[georgevicbell]

Strong advocacy for a Lake Shore Blvd bike lane is needed, from parliament over to Dan Leckie. It needs to be a fully separated and wide.

 

[PinkLucy]

Why stop at Dan Leckie? Bring it to the CNE and then join it up with the MGT

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think the basic problem is the intersection design. The mixed pedestrian/bike zone is a mess. I understand things get busy, and I appreciate that, but if the bike trail was perceived as a road by pedestrians, there would be a lot less people spilling onto it. They should've designed the trail pavement to continue right through the intersection, and lower it so there's a curb between it and the pedestrian space. People will perceive the trail and tracks more as a road if it's at a different grade and not the same pavement design as the pedestrian area. Add in some fencing to separate the areas as well near the intersection, and things would be much more orderly.

A curb would do wonders. A visual but also a physical barrier.

The problem is that waterfront toronto thinks they did a great job on it and want everyone to pat them on the back and say wow this is great we should have done this sooner. What they don't get is how dangerous they have made the street. People constantly run in front of streetcars or want to cross the tracks so they can wait for the light to change on the other side of them.

 

[interchange42]

Strong advocacy for a Lake Shore Blvd bike lane is needed, from parliament over to Dan Leckie. It needs to be a fully separated and wide.

Strong advocacy is not going to be an issue: the City already plans to put bike lanes on Lake Shore/Harbour Street when the current ramps come down and the streets are rebuilt/extended.

There should even be connections to existing trails at the ends. The City seems to get it re: the cycling network now.

It can't come soon enough.

42

 

[k10ery]

I avoid it completely between Yonge and Bathurst these days. I'd rather go up to the Richmond and Adelaide bike routes, even with Adelaide's problems between York and Victoria. It's easier dealing with an illegally parked/stopped car in the bike lane than dozens of idiots - be it pedestrians, cyclists or spaced out tourists - on Queen's Quay.

I wasn't there until late afternoon on the weekend. But I found it to be quite busy and yet working quite well. It was extremely crowded with pedestrian cyclists and runners. But people were happy, friendly, and almost all of them courteous and careful. We peds even waited at the red lights for the damn cars to get by!

I'm not dismissing the concerns people are raising but it is worth remembering that the problems here are pretty small, and they are just a result of what an incredibly successful and popular space this has become. Way to go Waterfront Toronto.

 

[k10ery]

Why stop at Dan Leckie? Bring it to the CNE and then join it up with the MGT

Actually a separated bike lane on Lake Shore all the way to Mimico would be a good idea. The western portion of MGT is if anything scarier than Queen's Quay.

I don't have a spandex allergy like some posters here but yeah wannabe serious cyclists should be on the roads.

 

[PinkLucy]

I will often take Lake Shore all the way from Port Credit to downtown because apart from some dodgy potholes and sewer grates, it's not so bad. I never take it heading west until past Humber because of the Gardiner access points.

 

[Napoleon]

The problem is that waterfront toronto thinks they did a great job on it and want everyone to pat them on the back and say wow this is great we should have done this sooner. What they don't get is how dangerous they have made the street. People constantly run in front of streetcars or want to cross the tracks so they can wait for the light to change on the other side of them.

I strongly agree that there are still serious issues with the street. It was apparent as soon as I saw their material with descriptions of "pedestrians noticing the change from PaleoTec pavers to grey granite pavers to make them aware...." There are some ways to vastly improve the situation:

• Clearly use a visually obvious barrier to separate the different modes: cars, streetcars, MGT, and pedestrians.
• Clearly mark intersections. Cross walks should be obvious that pedestrians can expect cross-traffic from cars, streetcars, and bikes.
• Move the "walk request" button to the far side of the MGT. There's a tiny space where pedestrians are trapped between bikes and streetcars to activate it.
• Clearly delineate the streetcar ROW with red paint or grass.
• Redesign the traffic signals to some reasonable modern standard. Forget the redundancy (one light per phase is enough these days). Make the left turn signal a red left arrow. Make the transit signal not look like the other signals. Make the bike signals (including the red one) look like bikes. Move the signal heads to reasonable places aligned with traffic they're meant to control. Get rid of the explanatory signs for the phases like "left turn", "transit", "bike".

I know some of it is not entirely within Waterfront Toronto's purview, but this street is dangerous. It's only a matter of time before serious accidents happen.

 

[salsa]

I strongly agree that there are still serious issues with the street. It was apparent as soon as I saw their material with descriptions of "pedestrians noticing the change from PaleoTec pavers to grey granite pavers to make them aware...." There are some ways to vastly improve the situation:

• Clearly use a visually obvious barrier to separate the different modes: cars, streetcars, MGT, and pedestrians.
• Clearly mark intersections. Cross walks should be obvious that pedestrians can expect cross-traffic from cars, streetcars, and bikes.
• Move the "walk request" button to the far side of the MGT. There's a tiny space where pedestrians are trapped between bikes and streetcars to activate it.
• Clearly delineate the streetcar ROW with red paint or grass.
• Redesign the traffic signals to some reasonable modern standard. Forget the redundancy (one light per phase is enough these days). Make the left turn signal a red left arrow. Make the transit signal not look like the other signals. Make the bike signals (including the red one) look like bikes. Move the signal heads to reasonable places aligned with traffic they're meant to control. Get rid of the explanatory signs for the phases like "left turn", "transit", "bike".

I know some of it is not entirely within Waterfront Toronto's purview, but this street is dangerous. It's only a matter of time before serious accidents happen.

I thought Waterfront Toronto promised that they will implement some of these changes to the design. When are they going to do that? Or did they simply add even more signs and call that a solution?

 

[P23]

Strong advocacy for a Lake Shore Blvd bike lane is needed, from parliament over to Dan Leckie. It needs to be a fully separated and wide.

Why stop at Dan Leckie? Bring it to the CNE and then join it up with the MGT

Actually a separated bike lane on Lake Shore all the way to Mimico would be a good idea. The western portion of MGT is if anything scarier than Queen's Quay.

I don't have a spandex allergy like some posters here but yeah wannabe serious cyclists should be on the roads.

I agree. West of Bathurst you can take the MGT path from Queen's Quay and then along the park, but this is shared with pedestrians and is quite narrow (yet there are still cyclists who blaze through at top speed).

Also if you're coming from the North, from Fort York Blvd for example, not only is it difficult to cross Fleet and Lake Shore (you can only cross at one corner I think?) but there's still no way to get to the MGT unless you go across the baseball fields or follow the sidewalk. There's tons of car traffic as well, not a friendly area for bikes or pedestrians when it's a very popular area for both. Even the Strachan crossing feels hazardous and it has a bike lane.

 

[ksun]

A curb would do wonders. A visual but also a physical barrier.

yep, the problem is that there is almost no visual difference between the two. Not everyone looks down and check what it says on the ground. There should be some sort of more obvious separation between, a line of trees for example.

On Victoria day, the waterfront was extremely crowded. There were different lines of hundreds of people who wait to get on the ferry or those tour ships. That left pedestrians not much space to walk. Honestly I don't blame them to spill over to the bile lane. Judging by the width and the number of users, the pedestrians simply don't have a fair share of space. This is bike lanes done right.

 

[PinkLucy]

The trees are there. They are still growing.