Toronto Pinnacle One Yonge | 345.5m | 105s | Pinnacle | Hariri Pontarini

Perhaps these community meetings should be displayed on our website in an events forum or thread or page?

That is an interesting idea… possibly linked to a calendar page.

I know that I've received some of the letters, but they typically only get sent to the community the development is impacting. Do I have the right to show up at a community event I don't live or work in?

Yes. If you speak at the event you are usually asked to indicate where you live, and if you're not from the surrounding blocks, then it is perfectly reasonable to state something like "I believe this proposal has relevance to the city as a whole" to preface why you are there or interested.

42
 
Sounds like a great way to get forum users involved. I'm sure a lot of us would show up if we had ample notification.
 
I'm not coming at SMT or anyone directly, but 90% of the time, the information (who, where, when) is posted in the appropriate thread weeks before the actual event (and often re-dredged a few nights before it is held).

As an aside to the conversation that was going on earlier, there is exactly no correlation between 'excessive density' and a 'degraded quality of life.' If anything, that degradation comes from densities being excessively low, not high (there is ample research from cities around the world to support this).
 
Why can't we get a tower with a beautiful crown? I'm tired of seeing one flat top after another. Nothing beats the beauty of a crown like the one on the Chrysler Building. A few distinctive crowns would make a world of difference to our skyline. (along with some decorative lighting)

Agreed!
The Chrysler Building, although shorter, is far more beautiful than Empire State or Willis Tower, especially when the top part is lit at night. I hope we can have something non-flat as well.
Our towers are so boring. So much glass and all flat top.

Well then dig up William Van Allen or Raymond Hood or Wallace Harrison and employ them (or at least figure out for yourself why that sort of decoration isn't done anymore)?
 
Not too hard to find.
China: Dalian, Shenyang
South Korea: Goyang
Thailand: Bangkok
Philipines: Manila
Malaysia: Kuala Lumpur
Americas: Panama City

I believe your way of wording things creates more division than necessary. Dalian and Shenyang sound like great places. I didn't visit these cities when I was in China but have heard great things especially about Dalian (other than the massive industrial disaster there last year - I had friends extremely worried about family) and they are comparable to Toronto in population for now. I attached a photo so everyone can see Dalian. Yet it is difficult to compare China to Canada as we don't have a massive population in the countryside.

Nonetheless, our numbers would at least compare favourably to these cities - and that would be quite remarkable for a developed country. I am not sure why you can't seem to just acknowledge that. Being near the top is quite incredible, and as lowly Canadians in a lower growth country, we get a little excited. Join in!

Still, your list is odd:

Goyyang is part of a metropolitan area of 25 million - i.e. Seoul. It isn't comparable at all. (And certainly doesn't have a nicer skyline - I didn't even find Seoul's skyline to be particularly impressive, though it is a great urban city with so much to offer - New Year's there was fantastic I love Koreans! - and they have a couple sweet towers on the way).
Bangkok: Metro population of 15 million - in no way comparable whatsoever and not even worth mentioning.
Manila: Metro population of 12 million + ibid.
Kuala Lumpur: Still 2 million more than Toronto, but you have a point there. It is a striking skyline and is booming.
Panama City: in what way are you suggesting that this is comparable? It is squished up against the beach and is more like a resort town Cancun style than anything.

Though just because we can agree that there are some cities that are similar, that is the point - Toronto is right up there despite being in a developed country. That is all anyone is saying!

As for the GDP figures you cite: they are averages for entire decades. Therefore some years surged ahead with 7% while others did not (normal part of a a non-government controlled economy):

46_-3214_20.jpg
RealGDPperCapita.jpg


Regardless, GDP growth of 4%+ is pretty fantastic - especially when starting from a high base. What economics class did you take? China's 10% per year is similarly wonderful, and certainly impressive. But when it slows to 8 or 7, as it is this year - and as it will continue to do for the rest of history in all likelihood - will you say "China has peaked"? Of course not. 6% or 5 or 4 will still be great for everyone.

Besides, do you remember the Asian financial crisis? Dubai in the financial crisis? High growth countries rise and fall, too. China also ground to a halt in 2008 before going into massive debt to prop up its economy. And you might say that the ghost cities are "just" cities of 2 million with 30,000 people, but if I had interests in the Chinese economy (which as a Canadian I of course do, since our fortunes are very much connected to China's), I would be very, very concerned about the overinvestment in the property sector there. You can only paper over so many malinvestments - even in China.

And NO ONE is saying Shanghai's growth isn't real, but MANY people are saying that there has been overinvestment in the commercial property sector there, since people assume so much growth into infinity - and it might just not show up. Check out this from the People's Daily (so you can't say it is western propaganda or some nonsense).

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90778/7874187.html

"The runaway growth now seen in the commercial property sector actually presents more of a danger to the country than the expansion previously witnessed in the residential market."

This is China's own government worried here: building tall trophy towers isn't the way to long term greatness. Real, sustainable progress is. (And that goes for Toronto: our builders must stay within the limits of real economic growth, or a crash will ensue).

Last, as for the comments about the crown - I humbly disagree. Can anyone show pictures of crowns that they like? I haven't seen many sophisticated examples. I prefer simple clean lines (the dancing towers are fantastic), they speak of a sophistication and modern sensibility. I love the Shanghai Tower for this.

Shanghai_tower_Sustainable_Crown_december_2008.jpg


Or the Shard:

2-pinnacle.jpg


These are much better - and fit so much better with Toronto's style - than something like Taipai 101

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Or the Petronas Towers

000 tower 01 red.jpg


Or heaven forbid!!!

Makkah Clock Tower.jpg
 

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I'm not coming at SMT or anyone directly, but 90% of the time, the information (who, where, when) is posted in the appropriate thread weeks before the actual event (and often re-dredged a few nights before it is held).

The meeting times/dates/locations are indeed posted most of the time, but for those who may have missed said post in a fast moving thread or for other reasons, these meetings would be worth listing on a designated calendar or upcoming events page as 42 suggested. I know what you meant though, the information is readily available to those willing to look for it.
 
This is a Projects and Construction thread regarding the redevelopment of 1 Yonge, and not one aimed at sorting out how poorly Toronto currently compares to every city in the centrally planned world. Balenciaga, you steered the Aura thread way off topic, and it's time to stop doing it here, or in any other P&C thread. If you want to relentlessly rant on about this, find a thread in the Toronto Issues forum to do it in. Please keep posts in the P&C threads more focused. Everyone else: don't feed the troll. My ban finger is getting tingly.

42
 
UT making news!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...r-developer-mulling-huge-project-at-one-yonge

According to information posted Thursday on architectural blog Urban Toronto, Pinnacle has begun to mull plans for a supersized, five-tower redevelopment project for the waterfront property

After reading the article what bothers me are these statements:

Following the sale, the City of Toronto requested that Pinnacle refrain from submitting a development proposal for the site until Waterfront Toronto completed a study on the area....Al Rezoski, the city’s acting manager of community planning, downtown section, stressed that Pinnacle has been asked to hold off on submitting a proposal for the One Yonge site until the area study is completed. The study, he said, would help to determine how much development the area can sustain

What business does some bureaucrat at city hall have telling a developer to "hold off" on submitting development plans? Is Toronto "open for business" or not? As exciting as these plans are I am afraid that this kind of meddling by bureaucrats will wind up derailing this development.
 
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What business does some bureaucrat at city hall have telling a developer to "hold off" on submitting development plans? Is Toronto "open for business" or not? As exciting as these plans are I am afraid that this kind of meddling by bureaucrats will wind up derailing this development.

If you believe strongly in this opinion. Write a letter to your city councillor, City Manager Joseph Pennachetti, and Cheif Planner Jennifer Keesmaat. We're watching.
 
Perhaps these community meetings should be displayed on our website in an events forum or thread or page?
That is an interesting idea… possibly linked to a calendar page.

This is an excellent idea!! Community meetings for big projects could also be announced via your twitter. My biggest pet in the planning process is that the only people that usually show up to meetings are BANANAs (Build Absolutely Nothing Anyway Near Anything). They are a very small but vocal minority. People who support development don't tend to show up, which is unfortunate.
 
If you believe strongly in this opinion. Write a letter to your city councillor, City Manager Joseph Pennachetti, and Cheif Planner Jennifer Keesmaat. We're watching.

I plan to! and to Mayor Ford as well reminding him that he pledged that Toronto was "open for business"
 
I plan to! and to Mayor Ford as well reminding him that he pledged that Toronto was "open for business"

Oh ya,... That guy. I love Toronto, but what the hell were you guys thinking when you elected him of all people. lol
The Mayor gets tons and tons of letters. Making your views known to your councilor and city staff in addition to the Mayor may be more effective.

I don't believe the city can legally tell a developer not to submit an application. The developer is probably hoping the city will look more favorable on the developer if it holds off on applying at the backroom request of the city. It should have been public. I wonder how many more deals like this are occurring in the non-public pre application process.
 

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