Toronto Parliament & Co | 41.45m | 11s | Downing Street | Kohn

[Stupidandshallow]

No official application yet...

Downing Street Capital and Kohn Partnership Architects Inc. have partnered in the design and development of an exciting new mixed-use development located in Toronto’s trendy Corktown District. The project will feature office, livework and residential spaces in a unique combination.*

*Source: Instagram/Twitter

Is this Corktown?

 

[someMidTowner]

I think the east side of Parliament there technically is just outside the Moss Park boundary (which I think is the west side of Parliament), but you still have this directly across the street to the west:

This would be the Trefann Court neighbourhood, right?

 

[Kingster]

No official application yet...

Downing Street Capital and Kohn Partnership Architects Inc. have partnered in the design and development of an exciting new mixed-use development located in Toronto’s trendy Corktown District. The project will feature office, livework and residential spaces in a unique combination.*

View attachment 72534
*Source: Instagram/Twitter

Is this Corktown?

Yes it is! Corktown officially goes west to Berkeley and then jogs back to Parliament at Moss Park - all up to Shuter.

 

[Kingster]

I think the east side of Parliament there technically is just outside the Moss Park boundary (which I think is the west side of Parliament), but you still have this directly across the street to the west:

View attachment 72535

This would be the Trefann Court neighbourhood, right?

No, that picture is of Moss Park. Trefann Court is east of Parliament and technically includes the subject site but Trefann Court is also in Corktown.

 

[Kingster]

No official application yet...

Downing Street Capital and Kohn Partnership Architects Inc. have partnered in the design and development of an exciting new mixed-use development located in Toronto’s trendy Corktown District. The project will feature office, livework and residential spaces in a unique combination.*

View attachment 72534
*Source: Instagram/Twitter

Is this Corktown?

If you know the proponents, it would definitely be a sound idea to be in contact with the local Corktown Residents & Business Association as early as possible.

 

[someMidTowner]

No, that picture is of Moss Park. Trefann Court is east of Parliament and technically includes the subject site but Trefann Court is also in Corktown.

I'm guessing you didn't read my whole post

 

[Skeezix]

[...] technically is just outside the Moss Park boundary [...]

[...] Corktown officially goes west to [...]

[...] and technically includes the subject site but [...]

I know I am a broken record on this point (I am the old crank to whom people just nod politely because he keeps repeating the same thing), but ... (here goes)

There is no "technically". There is no "officially". There are no official neighbourhood boundaries in Toronto. Boundaries are a matter of convention, they evolve, there is no correct view (there often is, however, a most widely-held view), and consensus can vary wildly (or even be absent altogether) depending on the "boundary" under discussion. While it is perfectly valid (and often quite interesting) to discuss whether a site is located in Neighbourhood A versus Neighbourhood B, there is no official neighbourhood mapping which serves all purposes which conclusively tells us the answer.

(I'm now done ranting. Smile politely and ignore me.)

 

[Kingster]

I'm guessing you didn't read my whole post

Well you are correct - I didn't see your post both above and below the picture - a "newbie" mistake!? But the two parts of your comment weren't really linked in content and I responded correctly to the second part. For what it's worth!

 

[Kingster]

I know I am a broken record on this point (I am the old crank to whom people just nod politely because he keeps repeating the same thing), but ... (here goes)

There is no "technically". There is no "officially". There are no official neighbourhood boundaries in Toronto. Boundaries are a matter of convention, they evolve, there is no correct view (there often is, however, a most widely-held view), and consensus can vary wildly (or even be absent altogether) depending on the "boundary" under discussion. While it is perfectly valid (and often quite interesting) to discuss whether a site is located in Neighbourhood A versus Neighbourhood B, there is no official neighbourhood mapping which serves all purposes which conclusively tells us the answer.

(I'm now done ranting. Smile politely and ignore me.)

Well, it would be a waste simply to ignore you, wouldn't it!? I take your point and it is technically a good one!! But I also disagree with you, although it depends totally on the definition of terms. In this case, the Association representing Corktown was incorporated 20 years ago as a corporation without share capital and its boundaries are very clearly delineated in that document, so in that sense it is totally official. However, there are so many different sets of boundaries depending who is speaking and some of them have interesting and odd origins. So your comments are mostly right on and actually speak of a matter which can sometimes be either problematic or divisive - but such is the lot of community activism in its many forms. It is never neat and clean! And dare I say that's what keeps it stimulating, albeit annoying and frustrating at times! It would be interesting to have a uniform mapping system to which everyone could refer, but the process of getting there would last well beyond my time on this planet, and would possibly even shorten my stay! Thanks.

 

[Skeezix]

That's not an official neighbourhood boundary. That's the boundary of a private group, subject to change anytime by the association itself, and it's no more than that. You and I could start our own Corktown group (let's do it! ), and the boundaries for that group would no more constitute official neighbourhood boundaries than the boundaries of this other association. Ratepayer groups and BIAs set their own boundaries for all manner of reasons - strategic, political, aspirational, even personal - and they don't always, and don't need to, correspond with everyone's opinions as to where a neighbourhood starts and ends. These groups, and how they define their geographic areas of interest, can inform and influence popular opinion in the area as to what constitutes a neighbourhood, but that's all it is - opinion.

It has nothing to do with definition of terms. There are no official neighbourhood boundaries in Toronto. And I'm not sure that having official boundaries would be all that useful - for example, a BIA has a different objective when it draws a boundary than the City does when apportioning resources to social service agencies or than a neighbourhood association does when trying to wrestle with what it considers over-development. There is flexibility in that murkiness.

Best you can say here is that this site is within the area covered by the Corktown Residents and Business Association, and as far as you know is what most people would consider to be Corktown. But there is nothing official about it.

I know I am being pedantic here. But it's a bugbear of mine when I see people write "...and this neighbourhood's official eastern boundary is at Street A...", because no, it isn't.

 

[Skeezix]

I'm not sure many people will miss this building, but part of me is sad to see it go.

 

[wolfewood]

^Same. There's something about older brick buildings in Toronto that I can't get enough of and that makes their apparent worthlessness in this city all the harder to understand. Maybe it's just the simple but elegant brickwork that you never see anymore (minus 620 King West, which looks promising) or my fetishizing a disappearing past Toronto but it just kills me when buildings like these go.

 

[Skeezix]

I walk by it now and then, and as always, I wonder about the potential of old buildings in crappy shape. I always wondered about this building's potential if one stripped off the battleship grey paint, revealing the original bricks and stone, and gutted the interiors. I always thought the north half would make a cool coffee shop or restaurant, with garage-style doors opening out onto the sidewalk, and the south half might make interesting offices for an architectural firm or something.

 

[Kingster]

I'm not sure many people will miss this building, but part of me is sad to see it go.

View attachment 72598

Forgetting the "official" discussion for the moment, this isn't even an application yet and your concern is partly addressed by my earlier suggestion for the developer to meet with the local association to hear what could be an objection to completely getting rid of the elevation, which could be incorporated into something new quite successfully. It has been shown to be of value to developers to go that route before they submit to the City, unless their objective is the OMB in the first place. Underneath all that grey paint is some interesting brickwork, as you say, which would be a pity to lose without a fight or some compelling argument for its removal. The overall design does look promising but that's not necessarily enough.

 

[Skeezix]

Developers are required to attend a pre-consultation meeting with City staff. Would be interesting to know if city staff flagged any heritage issues. I have my doubts.

And, maybe I am being pessimistic here, but I suspect the Corktown association would not be too fussed over the facade here.