Toronto Pan Am Village in the West Don Lands | ?m | ?s | DundeeKilmer | KPMB

[Torontovibe]

It's not even about the buildings being grey. It's about EVERY component of this area being grey. The bricks, the lights, the spandrel, the roads, the stop lights, the sewers. Everything is light and dark grey. Talk about depressing. But maybe I'm expecting too much from a boring city.

Yes, that's exactly it, it's not just the buildings that are grey, EVERYTHING is grey. I don't care how many trees are planted but that bombardment of grey is just overwhelming. (for me anyway)

The Paris picture above is not all grey. The roofs are grey and white, while the buildings are a creamy shade of white. Not only that but the materials used to build those buildings are very different than glass and spandrel. It does not have that cold feeling that WDL has. Look at the black wrought iron balconies and the sculptural details of the ledges. In Paris, at street level, you will see a lot of different materials and colours used. You will not see a wall of glass/spandrel retail, along a whole strip. There is no way that the West Don Lands is going to feel anything like Paris or even have half its charm. Paris in general, is more white, than it is grey. It's certainly nothing like the ugly, medium grey spandrel we usually get in Toronto. Let's face it, some shades of grey are much worse then others.

If you think grey is the only issue, you are missing the point. It's about the way the materials and the colour make people FEEL. It's the cold materials along with the lack of decorative details that prevent an area from having any charm or character. It makes everything seem cold and sterile. The comparison to Paris is way off the mark because Paris is loaded with distinctive, decorative details made of quality products like copper, wrought iron and wood. Those small details make a huge difference. Look at the wonderful details on those buildings. What is the equivalent in the West Don Lands? Those silly green ovals on the roof? OY VAY!

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

FWIW, I think y'all are dead wrong. This is classic 'before the project is landscaped' complaints. The woonerf streets with huge, robust shade trees and cafe awnings will make this a gorgeous community. By all means make your views known to DundeeKilmer, as they're still to build a whack more buildings. But RiverCity is anything but gray, the park adds colour, and the Distillery is a very nice contrast to the west.

 

[Tewder]

T.V., why take the Paris reference so literally? The design style/aesthetic is different, obviously, but we're talking about a perception of design cohesion vs one of design monotony... and for all its wrought-iron detailing the drab and muted colour palette of much of Haussmann Paris can feel just as monotonous on a dreary day in January under a slate grey sky... beautiful in its on way though, as hopefully the WDL will be! If anything the grey tones used here are deeper and more vibrant.

I do agree with concerns about the cheap grey spandrel and glass used so liberally in condos in Toronto though, I just don't see very much in it that is redeeming.

 

[typezed]

Everything isn't grey. There are several red brick heritage buildings, especially if you include the Distillery across the road. And green roofs were all the rage when this was being planned - they're prominent in the design. The heritage and the natural elements will be the accents here. Any master plans are going to prove to have some shortcomings in their choices, just as they will have successes. As true for this project as it would be if Torontovibe was doing all the masterplanning, filling this area with color and somehow making the waterfront into nothing but parkland and cultural attractions.

 

[urbandreamer]

Cars are street furniture. So go park your purple 1993 Ford Probe in front on that chic charcoal brick building c.2016. And make certain to wear a teal green t shirt with orange runners.

 

[MisterF]

Yes, that's exactly it, it's not just the buildings that are grey, EVERYTHING is grey. I don't care how many trees are planted but that bombardment of grey is just overwhelming. (for me anyway)

The Paris picture above is not all grey. The roofs are grey and white, while the buildings are a creamy shade of white. Not only that but the materials used to build those buildings are very different than glass and spandrel. It does not have that cold feeling that WDL has. Look at the black wrought iron balconies and the sculptural details of the ledges. In Paris, at street level, you will see a lot of different materials and colours used. You will not see a wall of glass/spandrel retail, along a whole strip. There is no way that the West Don Lands is going to feel anything like Paris or even have half its charm. Paris in general, is more white, than it is grey. It's certainly nothing like the ugly, medium grey spandrel we usually get in Toronto. Let's face it, some shades of grey are much worse then others.

If you think grey is the only issue, you are missing the point. It's about the way the materials and the colour make people FEEL. It's the cold materials along with the lack of decorative details that prevent an area from having any charm or character. It makes everything seem cold and sterile. The comparison to Paris is way off the mark because Paris is loaded with distinctive, decorative details made of quality products like copper, wrought iron and wood. Those small details make a huge difference. Look at the wonderful details on those buildings. What is the equivalent in the West Don Lands? Those silly green ovals on the roof? OY VAY!

You make a good point not only about colour, but about details and texture. The new buildings in the West Don Lands have too little of the latter. Comparing them to those buildings in Paris, the differences are striking. The Paris buildings have all the fundamentals of good pedestrian streetscapes: they're visually broken up into smaller pieces. They have a vertical design emphasis creates more variety for pedestrians. The retail is broken up into bite size chunks rather than long, unbroken expanses of featureless glass. A lot of the WDL buildings have facades with long, unbroken horizontal lines. Large expanses of flat, blank (grey) walls. Not much in the way of texture. Despite what Riverdale Rink Rat says, no amount of shade trees and cafe awnings can make up for that. The constant grey just brings out the flaws.

It's a trend in contemporary architecture where details in architecture are frowned upon. The designers of those Paris buildings (and older Toronto neighbourhoods) understood that pedestrian streetscapes need details and variety to be inviting, too many modern architects don't. Not every new buildings is guilty of this of course. This condo on Queen St does a pretty good job at making a good pedestrian streetscape, and it has all the same fundamentals as the Paris buildings (with the exception of that misguided second row of trees). And it doesn't need wrought iron or intricate stonework to do it.

 

[syn]

I don't mind all the grey either, as it's a generally a sophisticated shade that should age well. It's a big improvement on the ugly precast condos you see in clusters in areas like Cityplace.

Some additional colour wouldn't hurt, but that will come with retail and future projects.

 

[devjohnson]

I don't mind all the grey either, as it's a generally a sophisticated shade that should age well. It's a big improvement on the ugly precast condos you see in clusters in areas like Cityplace.

Some additional colour wouldn't hurt, but that will come with retail and future projects.

+1. And greenery.

 

[nfitz]

I don't mind all the grey either, as it's a generally a sophisticated shade that should age well. It's a big improvement on the ugly precast condos you see in clusters in areas like Cityplace.

Some additional colour wouldn't hurt, but that will come with retail and future projects.

Indeed. I've heard a lot of complaining about colour. But I can't say I've had much reaction myself from seeing the photos, or walking up Cherry Street. Hopefully the remaining buildings have a bit more colour ... but seems that some are making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[wopchop]

I loved the haunting music in the video. Made me laugh.

There is a definitely a lot of grey. Hard to argue with that. I don't think that it is that dreary at all, though, especially with green accents from trees, grass, etc. I wouldn't mind a bit more colorful accents, which as stated above, will hopefully be provided by retail signage and newer projects.

I think that you are underestimating how much people actually like areas with such design cohesiveness. I worked on a project in there for a while, and I never heard that many negative comments about the colour or architecture itself. Moreso criticism of 'shoebox condos', which I understand, because some of the units in there have bizarre layouts.

 

[adHominem]

We're also peering at this (empty! unfinished!) neighborhood from a block away through a fence. Presumably it will feel different to actually walk through it, and to walk through it once it's occupied.

 

[alex1u]

The finished project will look different. Landscaping, retail stores, street furniture, will change the perception.

 

[RyeJay]

The finished project will look different. Landscaping, retail stores, street furniture, will change the perception.

Our perception may shift from complaining about blandness to admiring for neutrality. The landscaping in particular has an opportunity to really pop. Let's hope for perennial flowers. The street trees will mature nicely, so long as they were planted via silva cell technology.

 

[College Park]

Our perception may shift from complaining about blandness to admiring for neutrality. The landscaping in particular has an opportunity to really pop. Let's hope for perennial flowers. The street trees will mature nicely, so long as they were planted via silva cell technology.

I also wish for more perennial flowers in public spaces, but when it happens, they're planted as blocky monocultures that fade into disrepair within a few years. Scant exceptions exist (such as University Avenue). Until Toronto allows volunteer groups to maintain public gardens, I hope the Games district keeps the planting to sturdy trees and shrubs.

 

[PinkLucy]

Doesn't the Garden Club of Toronto do some maintenance as well as planning?

Also, City Place has an active garden committee that did some maintenance and planting last year.