Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

[hawc]

Looks pretty cool. So is it a water park for everyone? Or an upscale spa for the rich? If it's a year round water park for kids and everyone I think that's a pretty good reimagining of what's there now. But I thought everyone is calling it a spa? What's the protest over? I haven't been following this one closely.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

I have a feeling I might be in the minority, but I really do not mind these plans at all. The only thing that I find disappointing is the massive parking garage. The science centre move is a bit silly but I don't find it to be egregious. I would have rather seen IO try to attract a different museum or cultural space in its place.

Toronto's public space currently has too much focus on just providing "nature" in the city. There is already a lot of this. What this city really sucks at is programming and creating spaces with attractions people actually want to visit rather than another grass lawn with trees and benches. If that means blurring the lines between private and public space, so be it.

Jean Drapeau in Montreal has large portions of privatized space and that has not stopped it from being a very pleasant place to visit. If these plans are executed as advertised I anticipate this will be an even more lively and exciting place to be than Jean Drapeau, and more akin to Marina Bay Sands in Singapore or the West Kowloon Cultural District in HK.

 

[Natika33]

Looks pretty cool. So is it a water park for everyone? Or an upscale spa for the rich? If it's a year round water park for kids and everyone I think that's a pretty good reimagining of what's there now. But I thought everyone is calling it a spa? What's the protest over? I haven't been following this one closely.

It is mainly a water park with a spa component on the smaller upper levels. They are suggesting a preliminary entrance fee of $40/adult with cheaper rates for kids & families (same as the price to enter the water park in Niagara Falls and around the same as CN Tower or Wonderland). I assume some of those against the project are calling it "an expensive spa for the elite" because they feel it'll turn public opinion against it and therefore they'll achieve their aim of shutting it down.

 

[Natika33]

I have a feeling I might be in the minority, but I really do not mind these plans at all. The only thing that I find disappointing is the massive parking garage. The science centre move is a bit silly but I don't find it to be egregious. I would have rather seen IO try to attract a different museum or cultural space in its place.

Toronto's public space currently has too much focus on just providing "nature" in the city. There is already a lot of this. What this city really sucks at is programming and creating spaces with attractions people actually want to visit rather than another grass lawn with trees and benches. If that means blurring the lines between private and public space, so be it.

Jean Drapeau in Montreal has large portions of privatized space and that has not stopped it from being a very pleasant place to visit. If these plans are executed as advertised I anticipate this will be an even more lively and exciting place to be than Jean Drapeau, and more akin to Marina Bay Sands in Singapore or the West Kowloon Cultural District in HK.

Agreed! One update - the parking is now moving over to the Exhibition grounds, so even that big drawback has been removed.

 

[generalcanada]

The whole thing is just a massive PR blunder by therme and ford. they called it a "family wellness facility".

probably not the best words to describe it. Fords opponents latched onto it and took control of the narrative. All they had to do was say its a family friendly waterpark.
Now every word they say has be in damage control mode

And yea the whole west island will be getting a makeover.

 

[AlexBozikovic]

It's funny to be relitigating this, but the "makeover" of the West Island involves demolishing every building, removing almost all of the trees, regrading most of the island and expanding it significantly.

The new Therme building will be about the same footprint as the whole island is today.

 

[taal]

Really my only issue is the fact we're getting a much smaller science center - with that said, a lot of the science center was open space / greenery / outdoor sections - so purely from an exhibit space perspective it's not clear to me how much different it really is ? Side note, I loved the science center growing up, I suspect many did, and I thought they did a decent job keeping it up to date until maybe ~ 2010 (it really was one of the premier North American science centers in the 1990s+) I recall I believe the telus expansion - but since then ... with the lack of investment, I find it's turned into a glorified daycare - as the exhibits are so old, in bad shape, and out of date (from a science and technology perspective).

Another thought - so the science center of course had the imax theater - is cinesphere going to be used in such a capacity as that would be great ? Do you know what would have been a dream come true, no clue if this is really feasible, but turn the cinesphere into a world class planetarium (that can still show movies as well).

I do not think the "spa" is necessarily a bad fit, assuming there is enough variety (i.e. for kids and adults) the fact that it and the science center are all year venus that's a huge win for the area.

 

[hawc]

Yeah seems like if it was FAMILY WATER PARK rather than SPA FOR THE RICH you'd have no issues at all.

Also, speaking as a dad with two young kids under 5, you need parking for families. It's an inconvenient truth. You're not going to attract young families without parking. Especially in that area. If it were downtown core maybe.

 

[hawc]

Really my only issue is the fact we're getting a much smaller science center - with that said, a lot of the science center was open space / greenery / outdoor sections - so purely from an exhibit space perspective it's not clear to me how much different it really is ? Side note, I loved the science center growing up, I suspect many did, and I thought they did a decent job keeping it up to date until maybe ~ 2010 (it really was one of the premier North American science centers in the 1990s+) I recall I believe the telus expansion - but since then ... with the lack of investment, I find it's turned into a glorified daycare - as the exhibits are so old, in bad shape, and out of date (from a science and technology perspective).

Another thought - so the science center of course had the imax theater - is cinesphere going to be used in such a capacity as that would be great ? Do you know what would have been a dream come true, no clue if this is really feasible, but turn the cinesphere into a world class planetarium (that can still show movies as well).

I do not think the "spa" is necessarily a bad fit, assuming there is enough variety (i.e. for kids and adults) the fact that it and the science center are all year venus that's a huge win for the area.

We take the kids to the Science Centre nearly twice a month and we LOVE it to death. I will be so sad to see it moved.

However.... it is increadibly run-down. The whole place feels so dirty, as if a few years ago they literally just stopped cleaning it. Not like garbage on the ground, but like all the walls are filthy all the brass railings and doors are disgusting. The exhibits never change except for the one in the great hall. The bridge that closed for repairs a few years ago will sadly never re-open.

It makes me so sad/mad. All they needed to do was keep that building in good repair and keep it clean. You could update the exhibits and you'd have an awesome space.

Instead they literally just forgot about it and let it rot. It kills me.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

Yeah seems like if it was FAMILY WATER PARK rather than SPA FOR THE RICH you'd have no issues at all.

Also, speaking as a dad with two young kids under 5, you need parking for families. It's an inconvenient truth. You're not going to attract young families without parking. Especially in that area. If it were downtown core maybe.

This will be walking distance from the Ontario Line and Exhibition Go with 15 min all day service by the time it opens.

 

[kotsy]

This will be walking distance from the Ontario Line and Exhibition Go with 15 min all day service by the time it opens.

On top of that, they will be building transportation for the last mile between Exhibition Station and Ontario Place. The 509 stops here as well and will be extended to Dufferin loop to bring people in from the 29 bus too

 

[Natika33]

Really my only issue is the fact we're getting a much smaller science center - with that said, a lot of the science center was open space / greenery / outdoor sections - so purely from an exhibit space perspective it's not clear to me how much different it really is ? Side note, I loved the science center growing up, I suspect many did, and I thought they did a decent job keeping it up to date until maybe ~ 2010 (it really was one of the premier North American science centers in the 1990s+) I recall I believe the telus expansion - but since then ... with the lack of investment, I find it's turned into a glorified daycare - as the exhibits are so old, in bad shape, and out of date (from a science and technology perspective).

Another thought - so the science center of course had the imax theater - is cinesphere going to be used in such a capacity as that would be great ? Do you know what would have been a dream come true, no clue if this is really feasible, but turn the cinesphere into a world class planetarium (that can still show movies as well).

I do not think the "spa" is necessarily a bad fit, assuming there is enough variety (i.e. for kids and adults) the fact that it and the science center are all year venus that's a huge win for the area.

My main complaint with the move is that we could have had something new at OP & kept the OSC where it was (with some necessary repairs & renovations, of course). I advocated for no new building in the parking lot, and for the pods to be rotating exhibits curated by various museums around Ontario with an emphasis on Ontario's flora, fauna, food, culture, history, geography, etc. Or something else entirely unique, not a rehash.

 

[rdaner]

Is now a good time to post this?

 

[adma]

The whole thing is just a massive PR blunder by therme and ford. they called it a "family wellness facility".

probably not the best words to describe it. Fords opponents latched onto it and took control of the narrative. All they had to do was say its a family friendly waterpark.
Now every word they say has be in damage control mode

And yea the whole west island will be getting a makeover.

Actually, "family friendly waterpark" wouldn't really be that much better, under the circumstances, particularly given the preexisting facilities we're dealing with. Remember what I've said before about Great Wolf Lodge as some kind of Thing That Ate Niagara Falls. Or, for that matter, what I've said about how those whose formative childhood experience of Ontario Place was in the 70s was different from those whose formative experience was in the 90s, and how the latter had very little, shall we say, Zeidler/Hough to it--somewhere en route, childhood (and, for that matter, the "familyhood" that answered to it) became, or served the purpose of, kitschified nursery entropy.

Also, it isn't like Ripley's (to take another recent-day "family friendly" Toronto establishment) is exactly embraced by dyed-in-the-wool Torontonians as an urban asset--though one can understand how it can be more of a "destination" than, say, The Well.

To use "family friendly waterpark" as an alibi here would be like using "state-of-the-art concert facility" as an alibi on behalf of the Molson Amphitheatre/Bud Stage replacing the OP Forum in the 90s--the original "Ontario Place destruction", lest we forget.

 

[hawc]

I remember the Zeidler/Hough Ontario Place of the 70s and 80s as some of my all time best childhood memories. Just incredible memories of my parents letting us lose there while there were over at the Ontario Place Forum watching Weather Report in concert. What an amazing time. That and early Ontario Science Centre days were magic.

Actually while I'm at it, the 80s Dinosaur exhibit at the ROM was so much more exciting from a kids perspective then the 'bones in the attic" display they have currently. Anyone remember the tar pit or the dark rooms with aquatic dinosaurs?