Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

[AlvinofDiaspar]

David Olive has no love for the current premier or for the PC party, one just has to read the his previous rants about the current Goverment.

The least he can do is try not to be bias and be accurate on what he writes.

Millennium Park cost $490,000,000.00 US ($614,000,000.00 CAN) in 2004 dollars not $360 million as he reported, in todays construction cost would exceed $1.2 B and if the Government was funding it it would exceed $2 Billion

Its laughable to compare Ontario Place to Stanley Park, Mount Royal, Central Park, Hyde Park, or Luxembourg Gardens.

The only thing that i am opposed to is that Ontario Place becoming just more Green Space that is under utilized, we need to make it a place where we can attract year round active uses, we need to bury the parking lots, we need to utilize the existing pods, cinesphere better then they have been, i am not a big fan of the current proposal but i can see some good in some parts of the proposal.

In my opinion we will never have a Stanley Park or a Central park unless we create better access to the Islands or we fill in a section of the lake to create a new land mass to create a new park along the waterfront.

I don't think Millennium Park should be the model for OP - (I thought Ex would have been better, and has similar elements already - for that), though a good chunk of the cost has to do with the engineering the site and parking structure underneath the park itself (and not the park elements per se).

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

David Olive has no love for the current premier or for the PC party, one just has to read the his previous rants about the current Goverment.

The least he can do is try not to be bias and be accurate on what he writes.

This is a given. (He was also off with his dates, based on what proponents have said, at least in respect of the adventure operator)

Millennium Park cost $490,000,000.00 US ($614,000,000.00 CAN) in 2004 dollars not $360 million as he reported, in todays construction cost would exceed $1.2 B and if the Government was funding it it would exceed $2 Billion

Good info.

Its laughable to compare Ontario Place to Stanley Park, Mount Royal, Central Park, Hyde Park, or Luxembourg Gardens.

I'm not sure he did that exactly, I may need to re-read the piece. I got the sense he was using those as examples of parks we should emulate, not suggesting that OP was at their level currently.

The only thing that i am opposed to is that Ontario Place becoming just more Green Space that is under utilized, we need to make it a place where we can attract year round active uses, we need to bury the parking lots, we need to utilize the existing pods, cinesphere better then they have been

Agreed. I may be a bit more open to larger amount of passive space than you might; but certainly, I agree the space should be vital and well used; the parking lots (as surface space) must go; the pods/cinesphere must stay.

i am not a big fan of the current proposal but i can see some good in some parts of the proposal.

I'm fine with retaining an amphitheater, and open to some adventure-type attractions.
Therme is the thing that most irritates me on a number of levels as a poorly conceived proposal for this site.
I am also concerned about the price point on the adventure section (not championing 'free-everything' but I do think an accessible price point is important. )

In my opinion we will never have a Stanley Park or a Central park unless we create better access to the Islands or we fill in a section of the lake to create a new land mass to create a new park along the waterfront.

I think the Islands are likely the best approximation of that type of idea, as you note. Aside from the need to invest in the Islands, and in improved access to/from them; I remain a proponent of growing the park/public space there at the expense of the airport.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I don't think Millennium Park should be the model for OP - (I thought Ex would have been better, and has similar elements already - for that), though a good chunk of the cost has to do with the engineering the site and parking structure itself (and not the park elements per se).

AoD

I think the biggest problem with the exhibition grounds is the limited use they currently have in normal years for example in January you have the boat show that occupies the enercare centre for a few weeks and the parking lot is used both by the vendors and by people who drive in, then for the rest of the year until the EX is on it's mostly hockey games and the odd concert at the arena as well as soccer and football games at BMO until November when the royal winter fair is on otherwise the parking lot is mostly empty.

When the Honda Indy is on the area inside of the track is used for seating as well as for the various race teams and doesn't allow much access across it and can be a pain for people who need to get access to Ontario place much more than walking across a parking lot is.

 

[Towered]

I decided to read it because it's apprently important that I did I still don't see anything in it that would actually support Ontario place being free and would attract people to come to it most of it is based on pure nestalga for what it was in the 70's and 80's. People have changed the way they look at things now and a large children's play area like they had then isn't what today's parents want to take their kids too anymore.

LOL.

Do you have kids?

 

[Northern Light]

The Star does seem to running an OP-proposal bashing column of the day.

Today's it's Heather Mallick's turn.

In terms of specifics she only really targets Therme.

Excerpt below:

Her overall take seems to be pro-nature, though curiously, maybe with an Olmstead vibe (who did wonderful parks, but I don't exactly think of nature in them)....
She's also strongly advocates for hiring local firms; rather than American or other other foreign firms for design/operation.
She takes a moment to bash both ROM and AGO for having American CEOs/bosses and Cinesphere for playing American movies.

The critique is a tad incoherent and wandering. I, for one, am not obsessed the nationality of the head of each of our institutions. That said; the fact this is such a common phenomenon, not only in culture either is perhaps note-worthy.
We ought to be able to nurture home-grown leadership. While not engaging in the degree of navel-gazing of certain other countries, we should also be comfortable trumpeting our own successes, both for domestic and foreign (including tourist) consumption.

Article link here:

Opinion | Doug Ford can add wrecking Ontario Place to his list of accomplishments

Ontario Place needs wood, rock and water, not another retro Ford amusement park that will taunt us for decades, Heather Mallick writes.

www.thestar.com

It's paywalled. But Outline works.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Buy Canada is almost as obnoxious as Buy America, IMO...

...I mean, if we complain about using sources from over there, then we shouldn't complain if over there doesn't use ours.

 

[Northern Light]

Buy Canada is almost as obnoxious as Buy America, IMO...

...I mean, if we complain about using sources from over there, then we shouldn't complain if over there doesn't use ours.

Strictly speaking, I'm not sure I'd compare advocacy for Canadian culture, or Canadian leadership to 'Buy America'.

The latter program is about favouring physical products and services made domestically at the expense of all others, irrespective of price or quality.

All nations and sub-national regions do need to cultivate local leadership.

Everyone needs to cultivate their own cultural identity to combat the American juggernaut; but also to offer a distinct experience to tourists.

That said, I don't think Mallick's column did a particularly good job of advocating for such.

 

[thaivic]

The Star does seem to running an OP-proposal bashing column of the day.

Today's it's Heather Mallick's turn.

In terms of specifics she only really targets Therme.

Excerpt below:

View attachment 340105

Her overall take seems to be pro-nature, though curiously, maybe with an Olmstead vibe (who did wonderful parks, but I don't exactly think of nature in them)....
She's also strongly advocates for hiring local firms; rather than American or other other foreign firms for design/operation.
She takes a moment to bash both ROM and AGO for having American CEOs/bosses and Cinesphere for playing American movies.

The critique is a tad incoherent and wandering. I, for one, am not obsessed the nationality of the head of each of our institutions. That said; the fact this is such a common phenomenon, not only in culture either is perhaps note-worthy.
We ought to be able to nurture home-grown leadership. While not engaging in the degree of navel-gazing of certain other countries, we should also be comfortable trumpeting our own successes, both for domestic and foreign (including tourist) consumption.

Article link here:

Opinion | Doug Ford can add wrecking Ontario Place to his list of accomplishments

Ontario Place needs wood, rock and water, not another retro Ford amusement park that will taunt us for decades, Heather Mallick writes.

www.thestar.com

It's paywalled. But Outline works.

Another useless rant with no substance. This is not journalism it is an anti government rant, as i have stated before i am not a Ford fan and did not vote for him, to put the blame on him for tormenting old people in long term care is a huge stretch , i think she should look at the 2 previous administrations if she is looking for someone to blame and not blame someone who was in power for just over 1 year, also what continuing chaos with vaccinations is she talking about? Yes the province had a rough start just like all other Canadian provinces, when Canada had the vaccines there was no chaos in the Province rolling out the vaccines, it would be great to read articles with constructive ideas about Ontario Place instead of ranting on subject matters that have nothing to do with Ontario Place.

 

[Northern Light]

Another useless rant with no substance. This is not journalism it is an anti government rant, as i have stated before i am not a Ford fan and did not vote for him, to put the blame on him for tormenting old people in long term care is a huge stretch , i think she should look at the 2 previous administrations if she is looking for someone to blame and not blame someone who was in power for just over 1 year,

Her rant on that subject was OT, and I don't want to derail the thread here in the same fashion. But I do think the Ford government made some poor policy choices as compared to BC on how to manage long-term care during the pandemic. But Mallick's rant was not a thoughtful critique, didn't need to be in that piece in any event.

also what continuing chaos with vaccinations is she talking about?

I presume the difficult many experienced making appointments to get said vaccine. I had no issues as my FHT had the vaccine, and emailed me when I was eligible, but I realize this was not the experience of many people.

It would be great to read articles with constructive ideas about Ontario Place instead of ranting on subject matters that have nothing to do with Ontario Place.

I endeavour to post relevant links to the thread from all sources; if there are more thorough pieces offering a more detailed thesis on the future of OP, and I run across them, they will be posted here.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Strictly speaking, I'm not sure I'd compare advocacy for Canadian culture, or Canadian leadership to 'Buy America'.

The latter program is about favouring physical products and services made domestically at the expense of all others, irrespective of price or quality.

All nations and sub-national regions do need to cultivate local leadership.

Everyone needs to cultivate their own cultural identity to combat the American juggernaut; but also to offer a distinct experience to tourists.

That said, I don't think Mallick's column did a particularly good job of advocating for such.

I did say almost as obnoxious...

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

LOL.

Do you have kids?

What does that have to do with my comments over the old playground not being considered unsafe by today's satanders. Im' sorry but parents today wouy;dn't take ther kids to something like that anymore. There are too many ways for kids to get hurt or not be able to be seen by their parents. There are way too many legal issues now for the province to even look at a playground like what used to be there.

 

[Northern Light]

What does that have to do with my comments over the old playground not being considered unsafe by today's satanders. Im' sorry but parents today wouy;dn't take ther kids to something like that anymore. There are too many ways for kids to get hurt or not be able to be seen by their parents. There are way too many legal issues now for the province to even look at a playground like what used to be there.

Please provide evidence in support of this statement.
An opinion poll? A legal judgement? Anything?

****

What I believe @Towered was getting at; and he'll correct me if I'm wrong..............is that he has kids, and would gladly take them to such a place.

****

The only attraction from the original children's village playground that I can't see being reborn at the moment would be the ball pit. As those are on outs at the moment.
Virtually everything else could be replicated in one way or another; though perhaps w/some tweaks.

 

[Towered]

Please provide evidence in support of this statement.
An opinion poll? A legal judgement? Anything?

****

What I believe @Towered was getting at; and he'll correct me if I'm wrong..............is that he has kids, and would gladly take them to such a place.

****

The only attraction from the original children's village playground that I can't see being reborn at the moment would be the ball pit. As those are on outs at the moment.
Virtually everything else could be replicated in one way or another; though perhaps w/some tweaks.

You're correct! I would be overjoyed in fact to take the kids to a new version of the classic Children's Village at Ontario Place, which I spent many hours at myself as a child in the 80's. It was ridiculously fun, producing many of my fondest memories of youth, and it makes me sad that there's nothing equivalent to that experience today. I don't know why EastYorkTTCFan keeps assuming such wants are born out of simple, blind nostalgia - they're not. There were a number of aspects I remember clearly that I wouldn't advocate replicating today. With the right imagination and committment, there's no reason we can't build an entirely new CV that's 10 times as great as the original. I fail to see why that is so difficult to understand.

 

[Northern Light]

Therme group has begun lobbying the City of Toronto on the matter of Ontario Place.

Details for Subject Matter Registration: SM32175​

Decision(s) or issue(s) to be lobbied

To engage with the City on matters pertaining to the redevelopment of Ontario Place.

Therme Group RHTG GmbH

Of note is that Strategy Corp. has multiple people on this.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

*Quietly hopes they replace Chief Saunders with Mr. Towered here*