Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

[Northern Light]

Ugh, i don't think so
seems perfectly normal to trash talk anything nice planned for this town, oh well

You're taking a principally outdoor space, with free access to the grounds and making the majority of it indoors and/or pay to play.

Right there, that's damning.

Beyond that, as @syn notes above, the design doesn't honour the best of what Ontario Place is or has been, it instead tolerates it, and then not so much.

Hundreds of mature trees will be chopped down to deliver this, the exact opposite of a responsible plan for climate change.

****

Also.....Palm Trees, indoors, in Toronto, on a publicly-owned site, on prime waterfront land?

How does that scream Toronto or Ontario?

It doesn't.

It screams generic waterpark idea that could be plunked anywhere.

Better suited to some Mississauga industrial area or Yorkdale Mall.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Anywhere.

It's indoors.

Oh please stop it with the BS,
have you seen the size of the venues planned, how about the outdoor artificial beaches and surroundings?

 

[Northern Light]

Oh please stop it with the BS,
have you seen the size of the venues planned, how about the outdoor artificial beaches and surroundings?

The beach as I understand it would be free access; it can stay; I could build you one there with out difficulty for a fairly small price.

We don't need large conglomerates to monopolize the space to have new/expanded beaches at OP

 

[Towered]

Oh please stop it with the BS,
have you seen the size of the venues planned, how about the outdoor artificial beaches and surroundings?

I give them props for proposing to create a new beach that you know...actually goes into the water this time!! Amazing concept

 

[AlbertC]

Description from Diamond Schmitt's website:

Therme Canada | Ontario Place | Diamond Schmitt

The design of Therme Canada | Ontario Place is grounded in the expansion of public park space, and honours and celebrates Ontario Place’s history

dsai.ca

Therme Canada | Ontario Place​

The design of Therme Canada | Ontario Place is grounded in the planned expansion of public park space, and honours and celebrates Ontario Place’s history, including the Pods and Cinesphere. It will create a year-round landmark waterfront destination reconnecting people to Lake Ontario.

The design weaves together three themes, expressed through architecture: the scale and spirit of exhibition pavilions; the restorative qualities of natural forms; and the transparency of greenhouse architecture.

The Therme Entrance Pavilion will establish a new public presence along Lake Shore Boulevard West with an open and welcoming form and three transparent vaults inspired by a trillium flower. Its scale and spirit are inspired by the neighbouring Ontario Place Pavilions and Cinesphere, which will be protected. The goal of supporting body and spirit with wellness in an egalitarian, welcoming environment is infused throughout the pavilion’s transparent and natural forms.

The new Therme Bridge connects the mainland to the West Island and provides all-season public access to the island park and a new public beach. The bridge cladding is glass and copper – connecting the entrance Pavilion to the main Therme building.

The exterior envelope of the main Therme Canada | Ontario Place building is clad in energy efficient, triple layer bird friendly glass on a steel structure, building on the tradition of public botanical greenhouses and glazed exhibition halls. The curvilinear roof is formed by a series of layers. Visitors arrive at a belvedere overlooking of the aquatic halls that house the botanical gardens and pools. The glass greenhouse architecture supports the integration of landscape inside the building with indoor pools and a transparent envelope allowing vistas of Lake Ontario and abundant daylight for the planted interior environment. A series of landscaped roofs extends the planted environment to the form.

The planned parklands and beach areas surround the building and allow year-round public waterfront access. The restorative value of outdoor green spaces for recreation, community gathering, and overall quality of life will be enriched with plans for free, public swimming; a new significantly expanded beach area; improved access to the lake edge, beach, wetlands; and an extension of the William G Davis trail across the entire site, accessible to all.

 

[Dr. Snoot]

The execution of all this will dull it down to a point where it leaves everyone wanting more. We're talking about a city and province which value engineers virtually everything imaginable in this day and age. We're far from the 60's/70's where we actually were willing to spend the money on quality.

The renders look great, but we have a problem in today's culture where we dont pay up for the quality which truly make major infrastructure projects shine to their fullest extent.

Therme is a quite well-established company with a proven concept in Europe and other locations. They are the private company that would build the structure and nearby amenities, so it really has less to do with the City and province. If anything, it's probably safer from value engineering.

 

[syn]

Oh please stop it with the BS,
have you seen the size of the venues planned, how about the outdoor artificial beaches and surroundings?

Yes.

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

This seems like a silly place for what is primarily an indoor theme park.

They could come up with a plan that honours the original intent and takes advantage of this prime waterfront space.

 

[Dr. Snoot]

Yes.

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

This seems like a silly place for what is primarily an indoor theme park.

They could come up with a plan that honours the original intent and takes advantage of this prime waterfront space.

I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. The proposed indoor theme park that makes an attempt to blend with and improve many outdoor amenities is bad, but the abandoned, entirely outdoor, and seasonal theme park that was previously in the same location at Ontario Place was good?

Having year-round space that tries to integrate with its natural setting seems infinitely better to me than space that isn't attended half the year.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Yes.

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

This seems like a silly place for what is primarily an indoor theme park.

They could come up with a plan that honours the original intent and takes advantage of this prime waterfront space.

Oh ok so you are not happy with a theme park @ Ontario Place,
looking at the concept i'm sure there will be enough going on everywhere to please everyone

 

[Undead]

Just build the casino and get it over with. /s

 

[innsertnamehere]

You're taking a principally outdoor space, with free access to the grounds and making the majority of it indoors and/or pay to play.

Right there, that's damning.

Beyond that, as @syn notes above, the design doesn't honour the best of what Ontario Place is or has been, it instead tolerates it, and then not so much.

Hundreds of mature trees will be chopped down to deliver this, the exact opposite of a responsible plan for climate change.

****

Also.....Palm Trees, indoors, in Toronto, on a publicly-owned site, on prime waterfront land?

How does that scream Toronto or Ontario?

It doesn't.

It screams generic waterpark idea that could be plunked anywhere.

Better suited to some Mississauga industrial area or Yorkdale Mall.

I never went to Ontario Place as a kid so please forgive me - but was it always all publicly accessible? I thought they had just opened the grounds temporarily after it closed. I could have sworn it was originally gated and you had to pay to enter. Even the current scheme seems to offer unimpeded public access to all waterfront areas, which is a large improvement over the original configuration.

a couple of trees, whoop-dee-doo. The whole thing is sitting on a gigantic artificial island. It's not exactly an exemplar of the natural environment.

I mean what do you do if not this again? You can't just leave it as a park, you have to restore its entertainment function. Building a theme park more closely aligned to the original function is sort of pointless as that's why it closed in the first place, Wonderland pulled demand away.

Again, the indoor waterpark is something fairly creative that is missing from the Toronto entertainment market today, that can build on the waterfront location thematically, and offers a significant new entertainment venue. What else should it be?

 

[Dr. Snoot]

I never went to Ontario Place as a kid so please forgive me - but was it always all publicly accessible? I thought they had just opened the grounds temporarily after it closed. I could have sworn it was originally gated and you had to pay to enter. Even the current scheme seems to offer unimpeded public access to all waterfront areas, which is a large improvement over the original configuration.

a couple of trees, whoop-dee-doo. The whole thing is sitting on a gigantic artificial island. It's not exactly an exemplar of the natural environment.

I mean what do you do if not this again? You can't just leave it as a park, you have to restore its entertainment function. Building a theme park more closely aligned to the original function is sort of pointless as that's why it closed in the first place, Wonderland pulled demand away.

Again, the indoor waterpark is something fairly creative that is missing from the Toronto entertainment market today, that can build on the waterfront location thematically, and offers a significant new entertainment venue. What else should it be?

Correct, you had to pay to enter.

From the Wikipedia entry:

The Ontario Place theme park operated annually during the summer months from 1971 until 2011. Designed originally to promote the Province of Ontario through exhibits and entertainment,[1] its focus changed over time to be that of a theme park for families with a water park, a children's play area, and amusement rides. Exhibits in the pods were discontinued and the pods became a venue for private events. The Forum concert stage had long been a primary draw to Ontario Place in its early years as it offered free concerts by a wide variety of prominent artists, for free with the price of admission to the park.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Correct, you had to pay to enter.

From the Wikipedia entry:

The Ontario Place theme park operated annually during the summer months from 1971 until 2011. Designed originally to promote the Province of Ontario through exhibits and entertainment,[1] its focus changed over time to be that of a theme park for families with a water park, a children's play area, and amusement rides. Exhibits in the pods were discontinued and the pods became a venue for private events. The Forum concert stage had long been a primary draw to Ontario Place in its early years as it offered free concerts by a wide variety of prominent artists, for free with the price of admission to the park.

Thanks. Old satellite images confirm that all accesses were gated.

I get some here seem to want it to be a park, but I just think that's a massive waste of land. The area is relatively isolated and very, very large. A park would likely be lighlty used given the lack of local population, and would do nothing to add to the city's entertainment options which was the original intent of Ontario Place.

 

[Northern Light]

.a couple of trees, whoop-dee-doo. The whole thing is sitting on a gigantic artificial island. It's not exactly an exemplar of the natural environment.

Your flippant attitude towards the environment is consistent w/your pro-highway and pro-sprawl views.
It's not a couple of trees. It is, quite literally, with no exaggeration well over 250 mature trees, you can compare the renders and footprints and then look at the aerial photos.
Accuracy is a thing to which you do not adhere as often as you ought.

I mean what do you do if not this again? You can't just leave it as a park

You could, actually, but it would not be my suggestion to do that with the entire site.

, you have to restore its entertainment function.

While I support the space including an entertainment function I disagreed with the characterization 'have to'.

Building a theme park more closely aligned to the original function is sort of pointless as that's why it closed in the first place, Wonderland pulled demand away.

The outdoor theme park was a central feature of Ontario Place; an indoor theme park never was........
Wonderland pulled demand away because it was something Ontario Place never could be; because the CNE got no investment in its permanent rides either, and because said permanent rides (ie. The Flyer etc.) were closed all year except during the 3-week CNE.

Let Wonderland be Wonderland.
Let people who want to spent time at indoor-amusement parks leave Toronto and go to places that appreciate tacky, like, Edmonton or something.

Again, the indoor waterpark is something fairly creative

Great Wolf Lodge on steroids is not creative.

that is missing from the Toronto entertainment market today,

So is an 800-store mall and a 2-storey indoor driving range..............somehow I don't feel the loss.

What else should it be?

The list of potential options is un-ending.

Many here, myself included liked the idea of moving the Ontario Science Centre down to to the Pods and possibly adding on to the complex for that purpose as well.
Much better location that it has today.
While we're relocating things...........Toronto Botanical Garden could shift here, for all the effort put into plans at the existing site, its very constrained. A mixture of 'natural' areas and formal gardens could occupy a large portion of the site.
A full-sized beach makes enormous sense.
So does optimizing passive recreation (paddle boats, row boats, canoes, kayaks, wind-surfing, picnics, walking and cycling space etc.
There's certainly room to retain a concert space, maybe even 2.
I have no objection whatever to restaurants and nightclubs occupying those zones at OP that were intended for same, updated for today's market.
If we were to see any 'theme park' functions, I'd rather go after the original ideas with an outdoor waterpark, simply one that was modern and up-to-date, and that could be a paid area.
A destination, adventure playground for kids works too.
There are myriad further options.

 

[irishboy]

Only ‘new’ news via the Globe and Mail:

“Therme is promising to set aside about 3.2 hectares – approximately a 20th of the total area of Ontario Place – for free outdoor space.”

This may not be as bad as it initially sounds. They are only getting the West Island to work with so if their trail space is 1/20 of all Ontario Place, it would be a much larger percentage of the area they are working with. When I looked at the render, it seems at least part of the trail would be going around the perimeter of the island. That would be key as it still allows people to access the outer areas at no cost. Fingers crossed this is the case!