Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

innsertnamehere said:
I've gone over this before, but the DRL north of Bloor would likely have PPHDs lower than the Sheppard subway.
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The Spadina line north of Wilson has lower ridership than the Sheppard Subway.

The final stations on a line will have lower ridership. The problem with Sheppard, is that once you get east of Victoria Park, the ridership would plummet massively.

The reason you build the DRL to Eglinton is that it's going to cost you about the same to do that, than build LRT for that stretch ... at least as far as Thorncliffe. At that point, it's a no-brainer to connect it to the Eglinton Line.
 
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No, the Spadina extension will be hitting 7,500 PPHD pulling into Downsview heading southbound. way, way above Sheppards current use in the 3,000 PPHD area. in sheer ridership numbers as well, Sheppard gets 50,000 daily users while the Spadina extension (again, north of Downsview) will be at over 100,000 to Steeles, and an unknown additional amount coming from north of that.

The real solution for Don Mills north of Bloor is do nothing. doing something costs way too much and far outweighs the benefits. The DRL only really makes sense south of Bloor.
 
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I disagree, are we going to get people out of their cars or not? Don Mills to Sheppard and the BD extension would finally take away an excuses people in parts of the boroughs have to hold on to their cars. That's one positive I can see from these subway extensions.
 
gweed123 said:
It would only really make sense if the North Yonge extension is built, because half the trains are scheduled to short turn at Finch anyway once the extension opens. Swap that short turn for a branch on Sheppard, and it may work.

Of course, any branching onto Sheppard would require the platforms to be extended to accommodate 6 car trains (which they were built for, but were shortened to 4 car trains).
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Yeah but if you do that, since you're branching at Sheppard instead of short turning at Finch, people using Finch & North York Centre station would see a decrease in service. Finch is one of the busiest stations in the system with tons of riders dumped from the Finch buses.
 
innsertnamehere said:
No, the Spadina extension will be hitting 7,500 PPHD pulling into Downsview heading southbound. way, way above Sheppards current use in the 3,000 PPHD area. in sheer ridership numbers as well, Sheppard gets 50,000 daily users while the Spadina extension (again, north of Downsview) will be at over 100,000 to Steeles, and an unknown additional amount coming from north of that.

The real solution for Don Mills north of Bloor is do nothing. doing something costs way too much and far outweighs the benefits. The DRL only really makes sense south of Bloor.
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Do you have any numbers to back up your assertion? As far as I know the Relief Line has only been studied up to Eglinton Ave @ Don Mills Road. Usage was low for the segment of the RL between Danforth and Eglinton. That's not surprising given that the segment would have no major connecting bus routes and runs through low/medium density residential.

North of Eglinton the line would have plenty of high usage connecting routes. The segment between Eglinton and Sheppard will very likely have higher ridership than the segment between Danforth and Eglinton because of those routes. If I had to make a crude estimate based on TTC Surface Ridership I'd say that AM southbound demand north of Eglinton would be somewhere around 5,000 to 7,000, which isn't a huge amount of people.

Anyways Metrolinx is working on a report that will examine the viability of a Don Mills Subway. I look forward to seeing what they have to say.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
No, the Spadina extension will be hitting 7,500 PPHD pulling into Downsview heading southbound. way, way above Sheppards current use in the 3,000 PPHD area. in sheer ridership numbers as well, Sheppard gets 50,000 daily users while the Spadina extension (again, north of Downsview) will be at over 100,000 to Steeles, and an unknown additional amount coming from north of that.

The real solution for Don Mills north of Bloor is do nothing. doing something costs way too much and far outweighs the benefits. The DRL only really makes sense south of Bloor.
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The Don Mills bus move 38,000 every day. If we assume that 25% of these trips are during rush hour (7 AM to 9 AM) and that 60% of these trips are 7:00 AM trips, that's 5,700 moved during peak hour. I'm going to take 20% off that number, just to be on the conservative side. And this is assuming that zero new trips will be generated because the subway is open. So 4,560 people in peak hour for the 25 Don Mills. With my highly conservative estimate, the 25 Don Mills will bring the Don Mills Subway only 3,000 short of the 7,500 number you mentioned earlier. I don't think Finch East, SELRT, Sheppard Subway, York Mills and Lawrence East busses will have any trouble filling in that 3,000 gap.
 
I’ve come up with a crude estimate for the number of bus transfers north of Eglinton. I tried to stay on the conservative side with this. I’m assuming:

1. 100% of riders on the 25 Don Mills will use the Relief Line
2. 30% of the riders on the bus routes will pass Don Mills Road (excluding the 25 Don Mills and 4 Sheppard)
3. 25% of the daily trips are during the AM rush hour. I'll assume that 60% of the rush hour trips are the 7:00 hour.
4. 80% of the remaining riders will transfer the subway (excluding 4 Sheppard and 25 Don Mills).
5. 25% of Sheppard Subway riders will transfer to RL, the rest go to Yonge
6. Zero new trips generated because of the subway
7. Zero trips originating north of Sheppard

4 Sheppard: 1,854
25 Don Mills: 5,700
34 Eglinton East: 1,062
54 Lawarence East: 1,306.8
95 York Mills: 889.2
85 Sheppard East: 275.6

Total: 11,098 PPHPD (southbound riders, north of Eglinton).

To be on the safe side I’ll assume that this conservative estimate is a little high and count only 60% of the 11098 trips. So approximately 6660 people in peak hour.

That's a little less than the amount of people that will be passing southbound through Downsview when the Spadina Extension is complete. That’s a little low to justify building a subway. But still impressive given how conservative this estimate is. I'm sure that if you factored in riders from north of Sheppard and from York Region and new trips you could easily add 1,000 additional people to this.

I'm under no illusion that these numbers are very accurate. But it does show that there's potential for decent usage north of Eglinton.
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
I disagree, are we going to get people out of their cars or not? Don Mills to Sheppard and the BD extension would finally take away an excuses people in parts of the boroughs have to hold on to their cars. That's one positive I can see from these subway extensions.
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Eeeh I kind of doubt it, there are still likely going to be people who would use the car because they don't like using public transit.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The real solution for Don Mills north of Bloor is do nothing. doing something costs way too much and far outweighs the benefits. The DRL only really makes sense south of Bloor.
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So how do you build LRT on Don Mills?

TheTigerMaster said:
Do you have any numbers to back up your assertion? As far as I know the Relief Line has only been studied up to Eglinton Ave @ Don Mills Road. Usage was low for the segment of the RL between Danforth and Eglinton. That's not surprising given that the segment would have no major connecting bus routes and runs through low/medium density residential.
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Thorncliffe Park and Flemingdon Park are low/medium density?!?!?
 
blacktrojan3921 said:
Eeeh I kind of doubt it, there are still likely going to be people who would use the car because they don't like using public transit.
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was at keele and sheppard yesterday playing basketball.. A friend of mine called me from downsview asking to be picked up from the subway. When I got to him I said jokingly but half seriously "Too good for the bus?" which he replied "I hate the bus and I was honestly contemplating walking." This story is not unique. There are all sorts of people who hate busses why is why I am an advocate for LRT because its the cheapest way to provide dignified transit to most areas in the suburbs. My friend will take the Subway and the streetcar but never the Bus. Now he is transit bias to some forms of transit. However there are people who are simply bias against all forms of transit thinking they are all underneath them being for poor and dirty people.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Do you have any numbers to back up your assertion? As far as I know the Relief Line has only been studied up to Eglinton Ave @ Don Mills Road. Usage was low for the segment of the RL between Danforth and Eglinton. That's not surprising given that the segment would have no major connecting bus routes and runs through low/medium density residential.

North of Eglinton the line would have plenty of high usage connecting routes. The segment between Eglinton and Sheppard will very likely have higher ridership than the segment between Danforth and Eglinton because of those routes. If I had to make a crude estimate based on TTC Surface Ridership I'd say that AM southbound demand north of Eglinton would be somewhere around 5,000 to 7,000, which isn't a huge amount of people.

Anyways Metrolinx is working on a report that will examine the viability of a Don Mills Subway. I look forward to seeing what they have to say.
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When did this happen, and when will it come out?
 
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