Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[TheTigerMaster]

I would like to challenge every person saying this to please provide an alternative site in a more affluent neighbourhood for this facility that is just as feasible and economically effective, thanks.

Until then this argument can’t and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Land values tend to be lower in low income neighbourhoods, which naturally make it more affordable for facilities like this. Does it means that MX is racist or whatever? No. But it does mean that, as usual, lower income individuals are getting the short end of the stick here.

Anyways, my fundamental premise is this: I wouldn't want this in my neighbourhood, so I'm not going to tell them that it should be located in theirs either. My own needs and concerns are in no way superior to their own.

Also given Metrolinx's conduct with the FWLRT MSF, where MX attempted to unilaterally renege on their committed community enhancements in exchange for support for building the MSF in the Jane-Finch neighbourhood (another low income neighbourhood), I cannot particularly blame any one community for not wanting to do business with MX. MX's conduct with regards to community relations has left a lot to be desired, to put it gently.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Land values tend to be lower in low income neighbourhoods, which naturally make it more affordable for facilities like this. Does it means that MX is racist or whatever? No. But it does mean that, as usual, lower income individuals are getting the short end of the stick here.

Anyways, my fundamental premise is this: I wouldn't want this in my neighbourhood, so I'm not going to tell them that it should be located in theirs either. My own needs and concerns are in no way superior to their own.

Also given Metrolinx's conduct with the FWLRT MSF, where MX attempted to unilaterally renege on their committed community enhancements in exchange for support for building the MSF in the Jane-Finch neighbourhood (another low income neighbourhood), I cannot particularly blame any one community for not wanting to do business with MX. MX's conduct with regards to community relations has left a lot to be desired, to put it gently.

Is that why I see single-story bungalows that surround Jane & Finch being converted into monster houses (adding second story, complete replacement, etc.)? Some of those bungalows are still there, but for how long? Some are being converted because of the rapid transit lines coming in. Expect the same in other neighbourhoods.

From link.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I would like to challenge every person saying this to please provide an alternative site in a more affluent neighbourhood for this facility that is just as feasible and economically effective, thanks.

Also, I don't believe MX for a second when they say that this MSF location is the only workable location. The most affordable location? Sure. The only workable location? No.

As a transport-focused agency, MX doesn't have any organizational imperative to reduce community impacts. Their sole concern is to get this MSF and supporting infrastructure up and running as soon as possible, with as little cost as possible. Spending money to mitigate community impacts doesn't benefit MX in any way, which is why I'm very hesitant to take MX's statements on the matter at face value.

 

[MrGoose]

Also, I don't believe MX for a second when they say that this MSF location is the only workable location. The most affordable location? Sure. The only workable location? No.

As a transport-focused agency, MX doesn't have any organizational imperative to reduce community impacts. Their sole concern is to get this MSF and supporting infrastructure up and running as soon as possible, with as little cost as possible. Spending money to mitigate community impacts doesn't benefit MX in any way, which is why I'm very hesitant to take MX's statements on the matter at face value.

Ok, then which location should Metrolinx have chosen? What about their decision making process do you disagree with?

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/ol-msf-presentation_final.pdf

 

[MrGoose]

Land values tend to be lower in low income neighbourhoods, which naturally make it more affordable for facilities like this. Does it means that MX is racist or whatever? No. But it does mean that, as usual, lower income individuals are getting the short end of the stick here.

Anyways, my fundamental premise is this: I wouldn't want this in my neighbourhood, so I'm not going to tell them that it should be located in theirs either. My own needs and concerns are in no way superior to their own.

Also given Metrolinx's conduct with the FWLRT MSF, where MX attempted to unilaterally renege on their committed community enhancements in exchange for support for building the MSF in the Jane-Finch neighbourhood (another low income neighbourhood), I cannot particularly blame any one community for not wanting to do business with MX. MX's conduct with regards to community relations has left a lot to be desired, to put it gently.

Also, find a suitably sized empty plot of land along the FWLRT path that you would have rather chosen to be the MSF

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Land values tend to be lower in low income neighbourhoods, which naturally make it more affordable for facilities like this. Does it means that MX is racist or whatever? No. But it does mean that, as usual, lower income individuals are getting the short end of the stick here.

Anyways, my fundamental premise is this: I wouldn't want this in my neighbourhood, so I'm not going to tell them that it should be located in theirs either. My own needs and concerns are in no way superior to their own.

Also given Metrolinx's conduct with the FWLRT MSF, where MX attempted to unilaterally renege on their committed community enhancements in exchange for support for building the MSF in the Jane-Finch neighbourhood (another low income neighbourhood), I cannot particularly blame any one community for not wanting to do business with MX. MX's conduct with regards to community relations has left a lot to be desired, to put it gently.

Also, find a suitably sized empty plot of land along the FWLRT path that you would have rather chosen to be the MSF

The Jane-Finch MSF location would be my favoured. My issue here is MX's attempt to unilaterally cancel the promised community enhancements that they promised in exchange for building the MSF there. And this isn't the first time that MX has attempted to unilaterally renege on their commitments either. If MX wants to have popular support for their projects, they really oughta start treating the communities they're entering with some amount of respect. The entire community consultation process for MX lead projects has generally been a mess. With this being how MX has traditionally conducted themselves, it's no wonder why community members really dont want to do business with you.

 

[officedweller]

Steve Munro has an update article regarding the downtown station consultations.

It discusses the peculiar layout of Queen Station (at Yonge) in some detail; and the absence of Osgoode Station from that presentation, among other things. Good read!

Ontario Line Downtown Segment: Consultation Follow-Up

Updated October 14, 2021 at 12:50 am: Metrolinx’ responses to the absence of material on Osgoode Station, and of the suggestion of “ballot stuffing” have been added. After the rec…

stevemunro.ca

The access time question is probably an average of all station users.
Where would the passnger have started from?
With the Ontario Line station placement, passengers coming from east of Yonge have a shorter access time than they would have had with the westerly Relief Line station.
The symmetry of the station with alternate exits to the street seem to distrrbute the crowds better (even if more people will exit to the west to Eaton Centre).
In any event, a one level difference isn't all that much of a delay.

 

[44 North]

Ok, then which location should Metrolinx have chosen? What about their decision making process do you disagree with?View attachment 356475

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/ol-msf-presentation_final.pdf

Do wonder if a stacked (2-storey) facility could've worked, and how much that would've amplified costs. Also somewhere in the Port Lands via a spur. But still not much space for something of that size.

 

[JSF-1]

Do wonder if a stacked (2-storey) facility could've worked, and how much that would've amplified costs. Also somewhere in the Port Lands via a spur. But still not much space for something of that size.

The city would probably object to something in the Port Lands considering the massive redevelopment planned for the area.

 

[cogito ergo]

Nice!

Impact Award Winner: DS-09 Subway Station Design Standard | ARIDO

arido.ca

 

[Rainforest]

Ok, then which location should Metrolinx have chosen? What about their decision making process do you disagree with?View attachment 356475

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/ol-msf-presentation_final.pdf

Thanks for the link, I remembered a document exists and tried to find it, but couldn't.

The most reasonable alternative is SITE 3 - LEASIDE. The report itself lists the pros: "Sufficiently sized, as above. Third lowest cost based on preliminary analysis."

And the cons:
- Consultation required with Canada Post distribution centre and local businesses and organizations.
- Engineering solution required to maintain main rail corridor (over/under) alignment.
- Road closure and permanent diversion would be required.

In other words, some challenges exist but it would be doable.

One more viable alternative is SITE 6 - CELESTICA.
Cons:
- Located at the same higher order transit node and developer planning for the site is advanced.
- Would need to displace the current developer, re-evaluate development plans, and impact existing and planned high density housing.

Again, some challenges and some drawbacks exist but it would be doable.

 

[toronto647]

Thanks for the link, I remembered a document exists and tried to find it, but couldn't.

The most reasonable alternative is SITE 3 - LEASIDE. The report itself lists the pros: "Sufficiently sized, as above. Third lowest cost based on preliminary analysis."

And the cons:
- Consultation required with Canada Post distribution centre and local businesses and organizations.
- Engineering solution required to maintain main rail corridor (over/under) alignment.
- Road closure and permanent diversion would be required.

In other words, some challenges exist but it would be doable.

One more viable alternative is SITE 6 - CELESTICA.
Cons:
- Located at the same higher order transit node and developer planning for the site is advanced.
- Would need to displace the current developer, re-evaluate development plans, and impact existing and planned high density housing.

Again, some challenges and some drawbacks exist but it would be doable.

The Celestica site is not possible in way possible as construction has already started on site and over 1500 pre-construction condominiums have already been sold to investors. Also a commercial building has already been pre-rented out to a number of tenants who are relying on it. There is no way Metrolinx is going to even touch this site considering they will have to provide an immense amount of compensation to the over 1500 investors and commercial lease rights holders. Also the amount of property tax that will come from this site will be astronomical. The city will no way approve this considering they will lose out on millions of $s of property tax a year.

 

[toronto647]

Finally a positive story by TVO

The case against the case for delaying Toronto’s subway plans | TVO.org

OPINION: The idea that the pandemic should make the province rethink its plan to build more subways in Toronto is flawed. Subways were a good idea before COVID-19 — and they’ll be a good idea after it.

www.tvo.org

 

[TorontoBun]

The Celestica site is not possible in way possible as construction has already started on site and over 1500 pre-construction condominiums have already been sold to investors. Also a commercial building has already been pre-rented out to a number of tenants who are relying on it. There is no way Metrolinx is going to even touch this site considering they will have to provide an immense amount of compensation to the over 1500 investors and commercial lease rights holders. Also the amount of property tax that will come from this site will be astronomical. The city will no way approve this considering they will lose out on millions of $s of property tax a year.

If Metrolinx would put their money where their mouth is RE: TODs, then they could’ve negotiated a land swap of sorts, allowing for the development to take place directly on/above the bus terminal for the Science Centre station or integrate it in to the OL Science Centre station with some additional expropriation of the superstore parking lot.

 

[smallspy]

Ok, then which location should Metrolinx have chosen? What about their decision making process do you disagree with?View attachment 356475

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/ol-msf-presentation_final.pdf

You could start by questioning the size requirements that Metrolinx has laid out. They want a facility that is substantially bigger than the current Greenwood Yard. And so the question that should be asked is: why does it need to be so massive?

Site 3 in the graphic is an entirely industrial area which wouldn't bat an eye to the addition of something like a rail yard. Yes, there are constraints and issues, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with.

Dan