Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Today from the valley at the site of the future WDCB (West Don Crossing Bridge), south of the OSC. There are now 3 new hydro pylons (above the valley at the west, in the valley, and above to the east), and they look like they're starting to string wires. I guess they're moving the wires from the existing pylons onto these new ones to make space for the bridge. We'll see.

Above the valley to the west
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In the valley (I've shot this one before)
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Above the valley to the east
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duty free said:
the Bloor subway was built in less than 4 years between Keele and Woodbine.
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The entire process, from the moment the first shovels went in the ground to the moment the subway opened, only took 4 years?? That's lowkey impressive and on par with subway construction in places like Moscow or China. Makes you wonder why in present-day Toronto it takes 4x as long to build 1/4 of the length.
 
81-717 said:
The entire process, from the moment the first shovels went in the ground to the moment the subway opened, only took 4 years?? That's lowkey impressive and on par with subway construction in places like Moscow or China. Makes you wonder why in present-day Toronto it takes 4x as long to build 1/4 of the length.
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unions, less manpower, less working hours... things like that. paying more for less basically.
 
81-717 said:
The entire process, from the moment the first shovels went in the ground to the moment the subway opened, only took 4 years?? That's lowkey impressive and on par with subway construction in places like Moscow or China. Makes you wonder why in present-day Toronto it takes 4x as long to build 1/4 of the length.
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How many people died?
 
Western Europe, not China, seems the best comparable and riposte to our construction costs.

To wit, they have similar health, safety, workers' rights and environmental regs; but they generally get things done much cheaper. IIRC, underground rail construction costs in Spain are about $300m per km versus our $700m-1b.

However, in conservation with a Chinese coworker, he told me contemporary Chinese construction follows many of the same regs we use: restricted noise during the evening and weekends to name but one. But they still get shit done way faster. So maybe we're even further behind than we think.
 
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81-717 said:
The entire process, from the moment the first shovels went in the ground to the moment the subway opened, only took 4 years?? That's lowkey impressive and on par with subway construction in places like Moscow or China. Makes you wonder why in present-day Toronto it takes 4x as long to build 1/4 of the length.
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It's easy to frame it as such when people cherry-pick dates that help suit their narrative.

The reality of the situation is that the B-D was built in concert with the University line as a single project. Shovels hit the ground in 1957 for that with the University line opening in 1962. The first bit of construction solely for the B-D line started in 1959, with the opening of the first section of the B-D in 1966.

The 4 year number is just the amount of time to dig the tunnels and stations, and ignores the 3 years of construction previous to that required to move all of the utilities, demolish buildings, prep sites, etc.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
It's easy to frame it as such when people cherry-pick dates that help suit their narrative.

The reality of the situation is that the B-D was built in concert with the University line as a single project. Shovels hit the ground in 1957 for that with the University line opening in 1962. The first bit of construction solely for the B-D line started in 1959, with the opening of the first section of the B-D in 1966.

The 4 year number is just the amount of time to dig the tunnels and stations, and ignores the 3 years of construction previous to that required to move all of the utilities, demolish buildings, prep sites, etc.

Dan
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Nonetheless, 7 years from start to finish is still impressively fast for a 12-km stretch that is mostly underground. If it were being built today, it seems like it might've taken all of 20 years or more.
 
81-717 said:
Nonetheless, 7 years from start to finish is still impressively fast for a 12-km stretch that is mostly underground. If it were being built today, it seems like it might've taken all of 20 years or more.
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The planning process was certainly different back then. I can’t imagine the City being able to move as quickly today to firm up a route and acquire all the properties, some of which would be justifiably viewed as heritage treasures in today’s environment. For B-D, the City had to relocate fire stations and other civic buildings…. As @smallspy noted. And the debate as to whether to build it began long before ground was broken.

- Paul

- Paul
 
81-717 said:
Nonetheless, 7 years from start to finish is still impressively fast for a 12-km stretch that is mostly underground. If it were being built today, it seems like it might've taken all of 20 years or more.
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Much less impressive that it was mostly cut and cover which is a lot easier than tunneling.
 
81-717 said:
The entire process, from the moment the first shovels went in the ground to the moment the subway opened, only took 4 years?? That's lowkey impressive and on par with subway construction in places like Moscow or China. Makes you wonder why in present-day Toronto it takes 4x as long to build 1/4 of the length.
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To be fair, the city planners had the foresight to build the Don Valley crossing for a future subway line ~40 years in advance (1918 completion of the Prince Edward Viaduct vs. 1958ish for decision to build Line 2). This would have been the most complicated part of the project.

I cannot recall any foresight on a comparable scale done by transit planners since.
 
I will say that the routing choice for this alignment is really good, amazing. The Corktown, the king and Bathurst and exhibition stops, thornclife area, and the bridge stations are all in some great areas either because they're are transit deserts or connection points.
 
PShells said:
To be fair, the city planners had the foresight to build the Don Valley crossing for a future subway line ~40 years in advance (1918 completion of the Prince Edward Viaduct vs. 1958ish for decision to build Line 2). This would have been the most complicated part of the project.
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And yet, the point of view held by many prior to the decision to build the subway under Bloor and Danforth was that it was a huge waste of money to build the bridge like that. And in fact, the smaller bridge over the Rosedale Ravine will forever remain a waste, as it was decided to route the subway on a different alignment alongside it.

40 years of a "white elephant" is another person's foresight.

Dan
 
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