ssiguy2
Senior Member
Don't catenary tunnels require higher ceilings and hence cost more?
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter JasonParis
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afransen
Senior Member
But it is cheaper above ground to use catenary (and perhaps better reliability with snow/ice). So I guess it is a function of above ground vs underground as a proportion of the total project. It makes it more complex, but aren't there trains with retractable catenary so it could be dual mode third rail underground and catenary above ground?
micheal_can
Senior Member
Or do what the blue line does in Boston... Both. Centenary in the open air. Third Rail in the tunnels.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
JSF-1
Active Member
You can have low catenary. The Toei Oedo line in Tokyo has a low catenary that is only a couple of inches above the train. The tunnels would only be slightly larger then our standard tunnels but still shorter that a line that uses a standard catenary height.
The REAL
New Member
I feel VERY likely that Ontario will
toronto647
Active Member
Can someone please clarify whether the RFP has been issued for the two items below:
Ontario Line – Rolling Stock, Systems, Operations and Maintenance
Ontario Line – Southern Civil, Stations and Tunnel
According to Infrastructure Ontario (IO) they are supposed to have been issued during Fall 2020. Technically they would have until December 21 (first day of Winter is Dec 22). Considering COVID is getting crazier in the city is it safe to say the RFP will be pushed to Winter or possibly even Spring 2021?
Link to IO report confirming the aforementioned information Page 2 https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/uploadedFiles/_CONTENT/News/2_Market_Update/Sept. 2020 P3 Market Update.pdf
Ontario Line – Rolling Stock, Systems, Operations and Maintenance
Ontario Line – Southern Civil, Stations and Tunnel
According to Infrastructure Ontario (IO) they are supposed to have been issued during Fall 2020. Technically they would have until December 21 (first day of Winter is Dec 22). Considering COVID is getting crazier in the city is it safe to say the RFP will be pushed to Winter or possibly even Spring 2021?
Link to IO report confirming the aforementioned information Page 2 https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/uploadedFiles/_CONTENT/News/2_Market_Update/Sept. 2020 P3 Market Update.pdf
The REAL
New Member
I would've definetly preferred the DRL over the OL only because they would've used the same rolling stock of trains which would been easier to stash. The only thing that made me think about the OL more was that the reports were saying that the DRL would have less of a distance to go to, they would've had to dig deeper underground because of the don valley, which would've instantly ballooned the cost of this project. Also the timing of this whole project was to be built a full 20 years later, which we all KNOW how dangerously packed Yonge & Bloor is now. The fact that Ford is renaming it the OL with cheaper options, the trains this time are ending at the Exhibition, and with a much sooner start date got me interested. As far cost goes, we'll have to wait and see as the at grade and the above grade sections will definetly change the dynamic of this project all together. The only thing that bothers me is that the new Science center LRT station was built underground for a reason, as the original plan was to have a seamless connections between the Crosstown LRT and the DRL for people heading to and from downtown. But now there's reports saying that the OL station at Don mills will be built UP TOP resulting in this weird "Kennedy station" like transfer. Idk how this will work and if at the end will it make Don mills look asthetically pleasing.
smallspy
Senior Member
Yes.
And now you've designed a vehicle that - unnecessarily - has additional components that can fail. For a new build line like this one, that seems like a silly thing to do.
The "catenary" in this case is still outside of the operating envelope of the vehicle. The third contact rail in almost all cases is located within the operating envelope of the vehicle. (Chicago is about the only one I can think of where the third rail is located outside of the vehicle envelope.)
They do a good job of minimizing the size and distance of it on the Toei Oedo line, but no matter what it will still require a larger tunnel than if it had been constructed with a third contact rail.
Dan
JSF-1
Active Member
On the topic of rolling stock, assuming we don't go with Catenary and instead opt for 3rd rail we could possibly see trains similar to the ones that will be used on the under construction Honolulu Subway which are made by Hitatchi. According to Wikipedia each car is 20 meters long (64') so that would make them I believe 11' shorter than the T1/TR cars but like 24' longer than the SRT cars which are something like 40' long if I am not mistaken. In the case of Honolulu they are only planing to run them as 4 car sets although we could and probably would run them in longer consists of maybe 6 or 8 car trains (maybe even 10 car depending on platform length).
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asher__jo
Active Member
They did all the cold weather testing for them
rbt
Senior Member
I don't recall seeing an announcement of qualified companies from the RFQ yet, so I don't believe an RFP has been issued for either tender. RFQs are typically free (for the customer) but Metrolinx will be paying something (probably $50M each) for their RFP work.
Last day of Fall 2020 is December 21st, so they're not overdue yet.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
toronto647
Active Member
If the RFP is not issued for both Rolling Stock, Systems, Operations and Maintenance and Southern Civil, Stations and Tunnel by December 21 as promised by IO... I think that would be huge blow and considering Covid will be crazy in the Winter the RFPs will be sidelined till next summer at this rate.
nfitz
Superstar
The start of winter is the solstice - which doesn't depend on the date. Winter then would start December 8 for those who haven't yet converted.