Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

bobbob911 said:
Did I miss a good reason why the light stock used for the Crosstown is not being considered for this line? At least there will be connectivity in that case to railyards.
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1. Not quite big enough, the type of tech they are referencing will be in between the crosstown and current subway system in size, and probably 6 car trains. I dont think the crosstown railyards are big enough to house trains of that length. And they would have to be 8 car length trains since the crosstown vehicles are not big enough, they are light rail tram tech, we are talking about light rail RT tech. Also the crosstown railyard will be quite full. Its not like railyards are these unlimited spaces.

2. Not driverless. The crosstown will use traditional fixed block signals in the tunnels and no signals above ground. Line of sight.

3. Powered by overhead lines. This made the tunnels for the crosstown 30% more expensive than a traditional subway, which was a point of contention on the Crosstown. Will not save costs on the DRL.
 
Sorry to come across as a Debbie Downer, but how are so many people on here so gullible? Thug Ford has just two items on his agenda: cutting taxes (thereby eliminating programs he doesn't like) and using the power of his office to benefit himself along with family and close friends/business partners. That's it. (edited to add: screwing Toronto as a possible 3rd item of his agenda)

His big "transit plan" announcement is nothing more than a giant smokescreen to obscure the real plan which is to throw the whole MetroLinx aspirational 30 year plan into the dustbin, and, from this point out, do nothing. Doug has no interest in serious public transit, and this line will not get built by him. Period. The DRL/Ontario line is now a fantasy scheme, useful only for transit map enthusiasts.

The most we can ever hope to see from a Fraud led government is a monorail going to a casino operated by one of his cronies.
 
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robmausser said:
3. Powered by overhead lines. This made the tunnels for the crosstown 30% more expensive than a traditional subway, which was a point of contention on the Crosstown. Will not save costs on the DRL.
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This is contentious. There's a good deal of reference on-line, I just checked and have too much to read and quote at this time. It is a point that will be revisited. @bobbob911 's point is valid, and this quick reference (and cities like Edmonton, Calgary, San Diego and others are proof of this) discusses it:
Though LRVs have a significantly lower loading gauge, they do not have a proportionately lower capacity due to designs that permit articulation at shorter intervals. It is not unusual for an LRV to have a similar seating capacity as a typical Subway vehicle, though for peak operations the metro vehicle will hold about 50% more standees than an LRV will hold.

The loading gauge of an LRV is reduced not only by the narrower dimension, but articulated design allows the longer vehicle to negotiate tighter curves. A tunnel for an LRT line is less costly than a tunnel for Subway. Since LRTs may be tunnelled, this site uses a lower-case spelling of subway when referring to general tunnelling, and capitalizes the word with referring to a Heavy Rail Rapid transit system. An LRT subway is nowhere near the cost of an HRT subway (a "full Subway").






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http://lrt.daxack.ca/Archive/LRTvsHRT/CostCompare.html

Another almost opposing view:
Costs
Although LRT is often proposed as a way to offer the service speed of a subway, at the cost of a streetcar, the infrastructure costs are still substantial and in some cases not much less than for a full subway.
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http://www.neptis.org/publications/transit-city-lrt-schemes/chapters/costs
(this source has a large amount of credible and valuable info)

And another again, more neutral, that ironically addresses the 'metro in open vs subway in tunnel' weather debate:
Subway vs LRT? We need both, and more.
[...]
Can surface light rail deal with our winter weather?
Most assuredly! Rail performs better than rubber in nasty weather, and we see that with streetcar performance in Toronto already, especially the newest streetcars. Other cities know this too: Calgary already operates a large, successful Light Rail Transit network, and Calgary’s winters are much worse than Toronto’s. Same with Edmonton, Minneapolis, Zurich, Switzerland, and many others. In fact, hundreds of cities worldwide, including dozens in very cold northern Europe, have had great success with surface rail lines as part of their transit networks. One of the biggest benefits of rail is its ability to push through snow and ice when buses and cars lose their grip.
[...]
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https://coderedto.com/subway-vs-lrt/
 
Irishmonk said:
Sorry to come across as a Debbie Downer, but how are so many people on here so gullible?
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How can you be a member here since 2007 and say that? You should know by now that if you spend $15 to make a poster of a transit map and unveil it at a press conference UT members will post seven thousand comments about it in the following 24 hours; many of them even earnestly debating the details of it, totally oblivious to the reality that the plan was made up in six minutes with zero details as a fantasy purposely designed not to ever be built.
 
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Irishmonk said:
Sorry to come across as a Debbie Downer, but how are so many people on here so gullible? Thug Ford has just two items on his agenda: cutting taxes (thereby eliminating programs he doesn't like) and using the power of his office to benefit himself along with family and close friends/business partners. That's it.

His big "transit plan" announcement is nothing more than a giant smokescreen to obscure the real plan which is to throw the whole MetroLinx aspirational 30 year plan into the dustbin, and, from this point out, do nothing. Doug has no interest in serious public transit, and this line will not get built by him. Period. The DRL/Ontario line is now a fantasy scheme, useful only for transit map enthusiasts.

The most we can ever hope to see from a Fraud led government is a monorail going to a casino operated by one of his cronies.
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They have to build something though. So my money is on this DRL/Ontario Line actually happening. Maybe it won't be exactly as promised yesterday, but it has the highest chance of really happening.

Plus having a line end at Ontario Place will benefit Doug's developer buddies that he will be giving a sweet-heart deal to.

Everything else on the plan is just there for show. Although I do think the Yonge-North extension also has a higher chance than the other lines.

If I were a SSE booster I would be pessimistic after yesterday's announcement. 2030 may as well be never.
 
narduch said:
They have to build something though. So my money is on this DRL/Ontario Line actually happening. Maybe it won't be exactly as promised yesterday, but it has the highest chance of really happening.
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My hunch is that Big Bucks Rail Solutions Incorporated is watching this, and concluding: "They don't have a clue, we can propose something far better, proven and documented, deliver it in ten years or less, and after another three, we don't even have to deal with the Buffoon, just sign with the agency, not Blowhard".

It will get built, but not what's on the table now. The Budget today will shine more light on the sleight of hand financing.
 
steveintoronto said:
My hunch is that Big Bucks Rail Solutions Incorporated is watching this, and concluding: "They don't have a clue, we can propose something far better, proven and documented, deliver it in ten years or less, and after another three, we don't even have to deal with the Buffoon, just sign with the agency, not Blowhard".

It will get built, but not what's on the table now. The Budget today will shine more light on the sleight of hand financing.
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when is the budget coming?
 
I really hope this is underground subway with subway stock, not some glorified streetcar line.

Then again, I'm too hopeful and this may never actually be built.
 
narduch said:
They have to build something though.
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But, do they? Harris and Co. didn't build anything that I can recall, and Rob gleefully threw already fully funded projects into the bin. Doug can bellow "billions of $$$" and "mini-subways!" all he wants, but when the PC budgets come in as massively unbalanced as the previous administrations', I can easily see Thug walking those big transit promises way back. I mean, the guy has no qualms slashing public school teachers, so he'd probably enjoy scrapping big ticket Toronto transit schemes.

I can't help but imagine Premier Thug as a kind of real life Lucy continually pulling the football away from longtime Charlie Brown stand-in, John Tory..
 
Irishmonk said:
But, do they? Harris and Co. didn't build anything that I can recall, and Rob gleefully threw already fully funded projects into the bin. Doug can bellow "billions of $$$" and "mini-subways!" all he wants, but when the PC budgets come in as massively unbalanced as the previous administrations', I can easily see Thug walking those big transit promises way back. I mean, the guy has no qualms slashing public school teachers, so he'd probably enjoy scrapping big ticket Toronto transit schemes.

I can't help but imagine Premier Thug as a kind of real life Lucy continually pulling the football away from longtime Charlie Brown stand-in, John Tory..
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Harris didn't make bold transit promises though. That's the main difference.

I really do think Ford is purposely making major cuts to Education and Healthcare so that they funnel that money to infrastructure projects.

Ford is in a lot of developer's pockets. These developers will be the ones benefitting from projects like this.
 
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