OneCity
Senior Member
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/john-tory-provincial-budget-1.4054621
Important budget upcoming for this City.
Important budget upcoming for this City.
Something's got to give. Things are getting pathetically surreal. I've got to add that I can't see any way forward for significant transit/transport investment in Toronto (and the GTHA) without some form of private enterprise multiplier of gov't investment: The Investment/Infrastructure Bank. It becomes the only default option.I look forward to seeing Tory put forward the Relief Line property tax levy.
AoD
That is applicable also to a suggestion in the Yonge Subway Extension for Docklands Light Rail type vehicles in Toronto. They are ill-suited for a number of reasons (In London, due to utilizing old rail RoWs, they affected an economy) and would be even more orphaned than the SRT vehicles.Refurbishment or replacing it with LRT were both viable options, but you are overestimating the possible savings with the former. It wasn't just change for the sake of change.
- From the EA: "In 2009 a life cycle cost analysis was performed which led to the decision to use LRT technology on the Scarborough RT"
- The costs for maintaining the current system or upgrading it were so high, the TTC commissioned an engineering study in 2005 to assess its full range of options. Which concluded that "converted and extending the line to Malvern costs roughly the same as upgrading the current line using ICTS technology" (source: Transit Toronto)
- An older report noted that the cost of replacing the line with LRT to Malvern would cost as much as extending the RT to Malvern using ICTS
- ICTS technology is as expensive to operate as a subway, but with far less capacity. (source: Transit Toronto)
- The tracks and systems are old and need replacement. But rebuilding it using ICTS tech is much more expensive than LRT. And the Ellesmere tunnel would need to be rebuilt since the turn is too sharp for newer vehicles.
- Requires a separate maintenance facility with a dedicated staff and parts, whereas an LRT line would have a shared facility with the Sheppard LRT.
- It would still remains an orphan technology that relies on a sole-source of many materials for maintenance and replacement.
- The TTC can't just go to Detroit or Vancouver and borrow their spare parts. They have needed to build up a large spare parts inventory and maintenance knowledge. They need to purchase the rolling stock and many of the replacement parts from Bombardier and only Bombardier.
- Converting to LRT would allow for a standardization of equipment and maintenance to the rest of the system, and allows the vehicles to be produced as part of the larger Transit City LRT purchase.
Perhaps they should have called it less impact on single detached residential instead.
Hey, to be fair, there are a lot of semis on Pape. Really nice, 3-storey Victorian or ~1900–1910 semis that have all been fully gutted and redone, but not all single-detached.
My concerns with the Carlaw alignment are:
- The cost increase (and the precedent it sets for 'buying off' rich homeowners with increased cost to the project)
- What does this do to train performance with that S-curve? Does it reduce the allowed speed, or is it close enough to the station that it doesn't matter?
- If I look at that alignment drawing above, doesn't this actually have the tracks directly under some houses on Pape just north of Riverdale shopping centre?
I was more just being sarcasticIt maybe nice, it doesn't mean worthy of preservation by default. In any case, the ship seem to have sailed on that one, I am more curious as to what, if any this change in alignment will cost. Don't think point 3 is a huge issue - the original proposal foresee the track running under houses elsewhere.
AoD
Anyway, off-topic discussion over. What's your view on whether the new alignment will impact train performance?
That is applicable also to a suggestion in the Yonge Subway Extension for Docklands Light Rail type vehicles in Toronto. They are ill-suited for a number of reasons (In London, due to utilizing old rail RoWs, they affected an economy) and would be even more orphaned than the SRT vehicles.
Again, you're doing the exact thing that you're accusing everyone else of doing, siding with politicians and their decisions that fits their preferences. At least be big enough to admit it because I've done enough reports in my life to know that I can frame them to fit the desired outcome. As long as politics is part of transit planning, it's all BS. The article below is truly telling and goes back to what I said.
Lol, didn't I say this just yesterday?Will this council's BS ever end?
Jim KarygiannisVerified account@jimkarygiannis
Mayor Ontario must step up if Toronto get downtown relief line - http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/downtown-relief-line-province-1.4053082… mayor does not get it--Sheppard subway 1st #topoli
Will this council's BS ever end?
Jim KarygiannisVerified account@jimkarygiannis
Mayor Ontario must step up if Toronto get downtown relief line - http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/downtown-relief-line-province-1.4053082… mayor does not get it--Sheppard subway 1st #topoli
I fear you are right, and one of the reasons I think best to skip the entire "subway" thinking, and kick it up to full bore RER in tunnel. There is a way to incrementally achieve this, by first aiming at this link (which is what the short DRL is) as an LRT in tunnel. That means the overhead catenary, track gauge and platforms are all compatible with later connecting it through to extant RER Rights of Way. Even the catenary voltage/current can be compatible (25kV AC) for direct use by RER, and ditto signalling, such that with a DoT waiver (it has to happen at some point anyway) LRTs and RER can share the same track as done in a number of nations far ahead of us (The Karlsruhe Model). These LRVs can be dual-voltage/current models as are run in Paris, many cities in Germany and elsewhere so that they can run-through onto street RoWs like Queen, King, etc.I think it'll be interesting to see the DRL cost estimates start to skyrocket even more than SSE's did and see how the reaction to that goes.
I think it'll be interesting to see the DRL cost estimates start to skyrocket even more than SSE's did and see how the reaction to that goes.
I think it'll be interesting to see the DRL cost estimates start to skyrocket even more than SSE's did and see how the reaction to that goes.