Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

AlvinofDiaspar said:
It does speak to the strength of the demand along the Yonge corridor. In any case, the continued reliance on ATC being the saviour of all things is a bit disturbing. I am not at all convinced that much of the improvement can be realized without a systematic effort to reduce platform crowding and other issues.

AoD
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Agreed, and ATC does nothing to relieve streetcar lines downtown or expand rapid transit coverage. I haven't read the report - is it narrowly focused on Yonge-Bloor relief while ignoring the other benefits of the DRL?
 
MisterF said:
Agreed, and ATC does nothing to relieve streetcar lines downtown or expand rapid transit coverage. I haven't read the report - is it narrowly focused on Yonge-Bloor relief while ignoring the other benefits of the DRL?
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I think they are looking at it from a more regionial perspective (so they should, beyond network connectivity issues). Not to mention they haven't really addressed the single point failure issue either.

AoD
 
Looks like Metrolinx is not too enthusiastic about the extension to Dundas West station from Downtown.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
The report frames a relief line like it has to be 100% surface or 100% underground. I would expect that future evaluation considers underground and surface combos, having the line underground north of Overlea Boulevard *edit: does not make much sense*, especially when you already have HOV lanes on Don Mills. Glad it's being talked about though!
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How do? In the conclusion for LONG, it was said that they'd have to consider building some at surface or reducing the number of stations to reduce costs.
 
I can't see a western leg going in at the same time as the eastern -- it would make the entire project far too expensive, and offer much less in terms of relief for the system. As long as the possibility of western extension isn't precluded by the design, I'd be happy with just the primary eastern leg as the first stage.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
TBH, it's not the most critical piece - though I can't imagine they'd ditch some kind of westward extension once the ball gets rolling.

AoD
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Yeah I agree. Plus with GO RER/Smart Track, the westward extension will probably be pushed further into the future.
 
MisterF said:
Agreed, and ATC does nothing to relieve streetcar lines downtown or expand rapid transit coverage. I haven't read the report - is it narrowly focused on Yonge-Bloor relief while ignoring the other benefits of the DRL?
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Purely on the Yonge Line extension. They needed to make sure there was capacity at Yonge and Bloor if Yonge was extended. Metrolinx is focused on a regional plan so it makes sense to limit the study. TTC is doing a separate study for the downtown and we shouldn't be duplicating work.

They are looking at diverting either 6,000 or 11,500 AM peak riders per hour from the Yonge line with the DRL. There will also be either 5,000 or 9,000 additional users of the subway system. (some via a reduction in usage of streetcars and buses and others are new to transit)

Looking at the $4.3b price tag of going north of the Danforth the Northbound DRL extension does not make sense unless Yonge reaches capacity. I assume the recommendation will be that it should be timed as such.

Also Option 2C numbers are a red herring in this report. It appears that they are only looking at AM riders on Yonge or the east end of the DRL southbound. They ignore any riders coming from the west (which makes sense given the purpose of the report but should be caveated as such.

They also assume there are no riders transferring to the Yonge south line that will be diverted because of option 2c
 
Tulse said:
I can't see a western leg going in at the same time as the eastern -- it would make the entire project far too expensive, and offer much less in terms of relief for the system. As long as the possibility of western extension isn't precluded by the design, I'd be happy with just the primary eastern leg as the first stage.
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It won't go at the same time because chicken-sh*t Toronto is thinking way too small. We're paying for an EA from Danforth to the University subway when it wouldn't have cost us another dime if we wanted to go really nuts and study both ends going up to Steeles -- not that I'm advocating that.

At this rate we'll be lucky to get a DRL from St. Andrew to King stations.
 
The study can be read here (PDF): http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-25_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study.pdf

Here’s a quick summary for those of us who don’t have the time to go over it. If the summary is too long, head down to the TL;DR.

Our current situation:
  • Downtown Toronto hosts 35% of the jobs in the city. 80% of jobs grown in the City of Toronto is in Downtown Toronto.
  • The Yonge Subway has a capacity of 28,000 passengers per hour per direction. The subway is currently operating at 31,200 pphpd, 11% over capacity
  • Committed service improvements will bring the Yonge Line slightly under capacity in the near future:
    • Toronto Rocket trains
    • Automatic Train Control (ATO)
    • Toronto-York-Spadina-Subway-Extension (TYSSE)
  • The TTC expect that the 2021 capacity of 1 Yonge Line will be 36,000 pphpd.
TYSSE and other current commitments will reduce ridership on 1 Yonge Line by 1,300 pphpd. Go RER will reduce ridership by another 4,200 pphpd. With these project in place, it is expected that in 2031 the Yonge Line will have ridership of 32,300 pphpd, 89% of line capacity. This is the base case that the study will be using in its evaluations.
  • If the Yonge North subway extension is built, the Yonge Line will be operating at 34,600 pphpd, 96% of capacity.
Long term evaluation:
  • Three long term projects were assessed for their impact on Yonge Relief:
  • Option 1 - RER Plus - More frequency and stations, to provide higher quality service on the Yonge corridor. This is very similar to John Tory’s SmartTrack proposal
  • Option 2 - Relief Line Options. These options include:
    • (2A - Relief Line SHORT) Danforth to Downtown
    • (2B - Relief Line LONG) Sheppard/Don Mills (Don Mills Station) to Downtown
    • (2C - Relief Line U) Danforth to Bloor (through downtown) (this is the “traditional” Dundas West to Pape DRL that most of us are familiar with).
  • Option 3 - Surface transit LRT - rapid transit LRT corridor to provide an alternative to the Yonge Subway.
Option 1 - RER Plus (Similar to SmartTrack)
  • This will have higher frequencies (5 to 10 min) on the Richmond Hill/Stoufville/Barrie corridors.
  • New stations and will use electrified vehicles.
  • This option is very similar in nature to SmartTrack, albeit with less stations.
Conclusions:
  • Option has very limited impact
  • would reduce ridership on Yonge Line by 400 pphpd (1.2%)
  • It would reduce ridership on Bloor-Danforth by 100 pphpd
  • $700 Million
  • This option performs poorly and has been eliminated from further consideration
Option 2A - Relief Line SHORT (Danforth to Downtown)

Underground Relief Line subway running from Danforth Avenue to Downtown (likely King Street).
  • Up to 7 stations
  • 5.6 km
  • 9 min travel time.
Conclusions:
  • Ridership of 10,800 pphpd
  • Ridership on Yonge will be reduced to 26,400 pphpd (a reduction of 6,000 pphpd; 18.6%)
  • Ridership on Bloor-Danforth will be reduced to 21,800 pphpd (a reduction of 6,100 pphpd; 21.4%)
  • Attracts significant demand from Yonge and Bloor Danforth
  • Bloor/Yonge station improvements may not be needed
  • Progressed to full evaluation
  • $3.5 Billion
Option 2B - Relief Line LONG (Sheppard/Don Mills to Downtown)

Underground Relief Line subway running from Danforth Avenue to Downtown (likely King Street). In the pricing assessment, the study assumes this line is 100% underground. It is noted that elevating or building the line at grade can significantly lower costs. Further study is needed to determine exact alignment and grade
  • Up to 14 stations
  • 16.6 km
  • 22.2 minute travel time from Don Mills/Sheppard to King
Conclusions:
  • Ridership of 19,200 pphpd
  • Ridership on Yonge will be reduced to 20,700 pphpd (a reduction of 11,600 pphpd; 36%)
  • Ridership on Bloor-Danforth will be reduced to 21,400 pphpd (a reduction of 6,500 pphpd; 21.4%)
  • Attracts significant demand from Yonge and Bloor Danforth
  • Bloor/Yonge station improvements may not be needed
  • Progressed to full evaluation
  • $7.8 Billion
Option 2C - Relief Line U (Danforth to Bloor)

Underground Relief Line subway running from Danforth Avenue to Bloor Street West. This is the traditional Dundas West to Pape line that most of us should be familiar with.
  • Underground
  • Up to 13 stations
  • 12.6 km
  • 19 min travel time
Conclusions:
  • Ridership of 11,100 pphpd
  • Ridership on Yonge will be reduced to 26,400 pphpd (a reduction of 6,000 pphpd; 18.6%). Yes, this is the same as option 2A.
  • Ridership on Bloor-Danforth will be reduced to 20,900 pphpd (a reduction of 7,100 pphpd; 25.6%)
    *Attracts significant demand from Yonge and Bloor Danforth

    *Bloor/Yonge station improvements may not be needed

    *Progressed to full evaluation

    *$7.0 Billion
Option 3 - Surface LRT

*The route is fully segregated using existing corridors. It runs on street in traffic downtown (like streetcars)
  • It has significant journey time benefits. A trip from Don Mills to Union would take 20 minutes. That’s 1 minute less than the status quo.
  • Up to 8 stations Conclusions:
  • Ridership on Yonge will be reduced to 28,700 pphpd (a reduction of 3,700 pphpd; 12%)
  • Ridership on Bloor-Danforth will be increased to 28,600 pphpd (an increase of 700 pphpd)
  • Attracts demand from Yonge subway, but further north
  • Limited attraction of demand from Bloor-Danforth
  • Progressed to full evaluation
  • $3.5 Billion

TL;DR:
  • So apparently my summary was too long for you, huh? Well here's the summary of the summary.
  • GO RER Plus (SmartTrack) won’t provide much relief for the Yonge Subway. This will not be a replacement for the DRL. Metrolinx will no longer be assessing this option for Yonge Relief. However, the City of Toronto SmartTrack studies will still go ahead.
  • The Relief Line U (Danforth to Bloor via Downtown; the “traditional” DRL) doesn’t provide any greater Yonge relief value than the Relief Line SHORT (Danforth to Downtown). The benefits of this subway would mainly be the relief on the streetcar network.
  • The Relief Line LONG (Don Mills subway line; Downtown to Sheppard/Don Mills) provides incredible relief benefits. If implemented, it will actually reduce ridership on Line 1 to levels lower than on Line 2. Ridership on Line 1 will drop from 32,300 to 20,700 pphpd. This is the clear winner.
  • The LRT option performed surprisingly well, but is unlikely to be chosen.
 
Edward Skira said:
I'd be surprised if they did that. Where exactly would you run it? Above Don Mills would be a nonstarter.
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11th said:
and given the projected ridership to be 19k (vs. future Yonge's 20k), running at-grade should be a nonstarter as well.
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Honestly I was just finding somewhere to save since the projected route for St Andrew Sheppard is around 7.3 billion. It should be underground.
GenerationW said:
It won't go at the same time because chicken-sh*t Toronto is thinking way too small. We're paying for an EA from Danforth to the University subway when it wouldn't have cost us another dime if we wanted to go really nuts and study both ends going up to Steeles -- not that I'm advocating that.

At this rate we'll be lucky to get a DRL from St. Andrew to King stations.
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Amen, brother
 
It would be nice if they also look at an extension to Finch to connect with a future extension of the Finch LRT eastward.
 
Very interesting results here. This study seems to confirm that Metrolinx is at least looking at northeast extensions. With the North Yonge extension dropping down the priority list, and SmartTrack's Eglinton leg likely to be chopped (it doesn't make much sense), this could be a prime situation for diverting those funds towards a SmartTrack tunnel through downtown, and a SmartTrack/GO RER branch along a re-aligned Richmond Hill line. North of Lawrence, using the RH corridor would drop the cost of any northward extension dramatically.
 
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