Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

MisterF said:
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that the DRL wouldn't improve commute times. It would be faster from Pape to downtown than existing lines no matter now many stations it has. It would be much, much faster than any of the streetcar lines it would relieve. The DRL is needed now, not eventually.
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It's ssiguy, no matter what toronto does, it's wrong. Remember that.
 
Well sorry but Toronto's track record over the last 30 years is horrid.

I do agree with a relief line but it doesn't do anything TODAY and Torontonians have been waiting decades for a DRL and this is just talk. When I was going to U. of T. in the late 80s they were talking about the relief line.......enough said.

A GO REX system could be up and running almost immediately because it wouldn't require a Royal Commission, endless environmental reviews, community consultations that go on for years, new track, or even new trains or stations to begin with. All it needs is the go ahead. Toronto could even begin before new fees/taxes come in and just write GO a cheque each year for the difference in it's revenue decline.

Toronto already has a large mass/rapid transit system built and all they have to do is let Torontonians use it.
 
Hello everybody, i have one (maybe little stupid) question...
How i can go from downtown toronto to brampton downtown...and how much it cost)
 
kEiThZ said:
TrickyRicky:

The question I have is why does the alternative or redundancy have to be provided by a subway line? Why are we so wedded to the idea that only the DRL can relieve Yonge-Bloor? A proper suburban rail service with two-way all day service would take a ton of riders off the subway network. It would also cut commute times by a third for a lot of suburbanites. I'd suggest that if you do this, you'd find a lot more willingness to pay taxes for transit then.
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The answer is simple - the current railway corridors simply aren't located in a way that makes them useable for any sort of alternative to a DRL or provide any relief for Bloor-Yonge.

That means we are left to looking at other modes that are able to be built through existing areas easier and more cheaply than railways - subways, LRT, busways, etc. Of those, only subway has the ability to meet the projected ridership not just now, but 30 years in the future as well. Ergo, subway is the mode of choice for the DRL.

Should the need for relief be oriented from a different direction - say, from the west - than maybe we could use the existing railways for a line. But from the near north-east, subway seems to be the best solution.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
I believe with all the present connections and future potential connections to be made at places like Kipling, Mount Dennis, Dundas West, Caledonia, Downsview Park, Oriole (which is like 200m from Leslie Subway station on the Sheppard line), Agincourt & Danforth-Main, and even Long Branch & Guildwood (with an Eg East-Morningside LRT), Toronto & indeed the entire GTA would greatly benefit from a dramatic increase in 2WAD Go trains to at least every hour on every line, not just a Go Rex plan or a DRL. These nodes could be developed into major destination and transfer hubs. I know Metrolinx has identified some of these already but need to get more aggressive about pushing these areas of development further and faster and upping train service to match. Along with true fare & service integration with TTC local services, instead of the ad hoc solutions beginning to percolate now (like Danforth in the east & King in the west). Within a 3-5 year window, a strong push in this direction could yield great results with a full transformation of the wider GTA region's and Toronto's transportation picture within a decade.
With all that being said, the DRL serving a slightly different purpose than the Go network, is, I think, a necessary next step for the TTC. The rail corridors are great but looking at the big picture, there's a gap into which a DRL alignment from Don Mills & Eglinton down to at least St. Andrew (King) or Osgoode (Queen) could slide very nicely.
I believe this shouldn't be about choice as we need both of these major projects badly ASAP.
 
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smallspy said:
The answer is simple - the current railway corridors simply aren't located in a way that makes them useable for any sort of alternative to a DRL or provide any relief for Bloor-Yonge.
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This is assuming that people who use subways live near subways, which isn't really the case. From the east, half of the DRL's ridership would be transfers from BD at Pape.

And rail corridors clearly are usable for some sort of relief. The Lakeshore East RT led to 7% reduction in Yonge demand versus baseline. Obviously less than a fully built out DRL (~15%), but not that big in absolute terms of diversion. Presumably similar improvements to the Richmond Hill or Stouffville would also result in diversion.

It's true that frequent GO service would probably draw very few walk-in riders, but those are such a small minority of transit trips outside of downtown it's difficult to see why it would matter.
 
A more detailed view of the DRL as a GO REX tunnel instead of a TTC Subway tunnel. I think that in terms of the "relief" function of the DRL, this would achieve much more than a TTC DRL, simply because the lines running through it can reach much further out than any TTC project could. The lines running through it go to Mt. Pleasant and Unionville, Square One and Richmond Hill Centre, Clarkson and Pickering. There's no way a TTC subway could reach all of those spots without being in the 10s of billions of dollars. But using upgraded GO tracks, it can be done for only moderately more than what is currently being spent on various related TTC and GO improvements.

Yes, there are fewer stations than what a TTC DRL would have, but the platforms would also be longer, which allows for 2 or even 3 entrances/exits at each station. For example, the Sherbourne station stretches almost the entire way between Jarvis and Sherbourne, so there could be entrances at both locations. The GO REX stations would be shorter than current GO stations, because I envision them using shorter, single-decked trains instead of the current bi-levels. Much more of an S-Bahn look compared to the current GO look.

GO%20REX%20DRL.jpg


Link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GO REX DRL.jpg

To see how the line fits into the entire network, here's the full GO REX map. I used the same colours and everything, so it should be pretty easy to look from one map to another: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GO REX v5.jpg
 
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Mod's: The thread title should be change to Yonge Relief Network Study being used by Metrolinx and TTC using (Yonge Relief Line Study?)

At the Portland meeting on Feb 13, the transit plan show the DRL line (Yonge Relief Network call by Metrolinx) in 2 different location north of Front St for the various options.

The 2nd option saw the line down by Eastern Ave to the point a new GO Station would be located on the east side of the DVP that would service the DRL (Yonge Relief Line) as well a transit hub for the Portland.

The original option saw a new GO station at Cherry St back in 2005 for the master Transit EA for the Portland and was still there in 2012 update.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
Well sorry but Toronto's track record over the last 30 years is horrid.

I do agree with a relief line but it doesn't do anything TODAY and Torontonians have been waiting decades for a DRL and this is just talk. When I was going to U. of T. in the late 80s they were talking about the relief line.......enough said.

A GO REX system could be up and running almost immediately because it wouldn't require a Royal Commission, endless environmental reviews, community consultations that go on for years, new track, or even new trains or stations to begin with. All it needs is the go ahead. Toronto could even begin before new fees/taxes come in and just write GO a cheque each year for the difference in it's revenue decline.

Toronto already has a large mass/rapid transit system built and all they have to do is let Torontonians use it.
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So first you say that the DRL is needed "eventually" and then you criticize it for not coming soon enough? Make up your mind! A GO express rail system is needed as well, but it wouldn't eliminate the need for a DRL. They are on different corridors, serve largely different riders, and have different advantages. They're both needed (and both are being worked on by Metrolinx). Plus it wouldn't be anywhere near as immediate as you seem to think, it's not just a matter of slapping more trains on the tracks. Even things that sound simple are taking several years, like electrifying the Lakeshore and Kitchener lines and fare integration with the TTC.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Well sorry but Toronto's track record over the last 30 years is horrid.

I do agree with a relief line but it doesn't do anything TODAY and Torontonians have been waiting decades for a DRL and this is just talk. When I was going to U. of T. in the late 80s they were talking about the relief line.......enough said.

A GO REX system could be up and running almost immediately because it wouldn't require a Royal Commission, endless environmental reviews, community consultations that go on for years, new track, or even new trains or stations to begin with. All it needs is the go ahead. Toronto could even begin before new fees/taxes come in and just write GO a cheque each year for the difference in it's revenue decline.

Toronto already has a large mass/rapid transit system built and all they have to do is let Torontonians use it.
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The downward spiral actually started in 1997, when the Harris PC government of the time withdrew financial support for TTC capital projects and the operating budget. Fares were raised, service was cut, and the Eglinton subway was cancelled.

More service cuts were made in 2011 by the Harris' disciples, the Rob Ford and his lapdogs. More service cuts.

Service was increased under Miller and new capital projects were being drawn up. Only the Spadina Subway extension and the Eglinton Crosstown LRT are being continued. Other projects may continue, if and only if they can bypass the Ford brothers and the Ontario PC's.
 
Yes, a GO REX system could be up and running immediately.

Fare integration requires a signature, nothing more. As I also said the system could be up and running immediately and things like electrification, more trains, and more stops could be brought in gradually depending on ridership and funds but they don't have to be done before the system is up and running.

As for Harris, that is absolutely true and takes a while to regain that lost 8 years and Torontonians did not vote him in. Ford on the other hand was voted in so that is 100% the fault of Torontonians. Remember TransitCity which was to initially be completed by 2014? Well the city bitched and moaned when McGuinty stretched the funding over a longer period of time? Toronto was furious but Miller could have done something to keep to the schedule despite it's many, many flaws.............make Torontonians actually pay for some of it's own transit expansion but god forbid. Just because no other city on the planet would ask senior levels of government is fund 100% of the transit expansion Toronto seemed to think it was it's right to demand it from Queen's Park. A lot of the lines could be coming on stream right now if Toronto had made the truly novel commitment of putting a plug nickel towards it.

Toronto keeps insisting that transit expansion is vital but not vital enough that they should have to pay for any of it.

I did misspeak about the DRL as it would help the underserved eastern part of the old city and improved speed to Union for those people and lifted some of the burden from the over capacity streetcar lines but as for people going beyond Pape, very little.

Like I said, a DRL eventually but Torontonians cannot wait at least another decade for rapid transit and the truly sad part is that they don't have to. Toronto has the bones of a great rapid transit system if only they would let Torontonians use it. The citizenry cannot wait for yet more coloured lines on a fantasy map to come to fruition at "some point in the future" as the need is immediate.
 
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