Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

junctionist said:
Would building a subway downtown be a lot more expensive than in the suburbs? Over the years, I've noticed that that seems to be the general assumption here, but if tunnel boring machines are used, they should clear most of the additional tunnels and utilities downtown without much additional complications.
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I would think it would be the stations that would add the majority of the cost differential. Yes the TBMing costs would be about the same, but building a station box at Bay & Wellington is much more complex than building one at Finch & Keele. That's where the underground infrastructure complexities come into play. Also, unlike at Finch & Keele, the bulk of the station box can't be left open for months on end while construction progresses, so that difference in construction technique could also potentially drive up the cost.

Not to mention that even if a TBM is being used, you still need launch sites. Clarence Square (Spadina & Wellington) is about the only downtown site along the DRL route that could be 'easily' converted into a TBM launch site.
 
I'm not really a fan of moving the streetcar around too much (or at all really west of the DVP) alignment wise, most destinations are just off of King (both north and south) meaning that if you moved it south or north you would be losing catchment of certain locations.

TBM drives probably have to be done across the entire core, St. James park is the only sort of real downtown option for TBM extraction. Personally I think it should probably have 3 TBM launch locations, with 4 "drives", with Extraction shafts at the Gardiner & Roncesvalles (beside the Boulevard club with reduced Lakeshore lanes), St. james Park, (park probably cut in half size wise for the launch shaft), and the new Don River park. (park cut in size as well)
 
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junctionist said:
Would building a subway downtown be a lot more expensive than in the suburbs? Over the years, I've noticed that that seems to be the general assumption here, but if tunnel boring machines are used, they should clear most of the additional tunnels and utilities downtown without much additional complications.
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The section from Victoria to University will be more expensive simply because there is a lot of stuff underground already and not much room to work in above-ground.

That entire chunk would either need to be very deep bore or cut & cover (like Union 2nd platform, but much bigger).
 
gweed123 said:
Not to mention that even if a TBM is being used, you still need launch sites. Clarence Square (Spadina & Wellington) is about the only downtown site along the DRL route that could be 'easily' converted into a TBM launch site.
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Are there any overriding reason as to why the stations themselves can't be used as launch site?

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Are there any overriding reason as to why the stations themselves can't be used as launch site?

AoD
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Technically none, although you need lots of space around the pit for various other tasks associated with the TBM, such as spoil removal and storage, grout mixing and liner storage. Look at the space allocated for the sites at Steeles West and Downsview Park as an example of what kind of room is needed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Technically none, although you need lots of space around the pit for various other tasks associated with the TBM, such as spoil removal and storage, grout mixing and liner storage. Look at the space allocated for the sites at Steeles West and Downsview Park as an example of what kind of room is needed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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That's pretty much the same answer I was going to give, haha. It's not impossible, it's just very technically challenging, and requires a lot of coordination.
 
Yea and when they repurpose the dirt to create islands they can funnel it through the same tunnel in the opposite direction into the lake to create them there.
 
gweed123 said:
If the King streetcar is removed, then putting a ROW on Queen may be a good compromise in the 'war on the car'. Of course, that would still be a big net benefit to transit too.
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If you put a ROW on Queen, there will be no room for cars.I am not saying thats a bad thing but those who drive will have something to say about it
 
Palma said:
If you put a ROW on Queen, there will be no room for cars.I am not saying thats a bad thing but those who drive will have something to say about it
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They'll still be room for cars. Make it a ROW/one way traffic /parking/bike lane.

Many drivers will be displaced, but it's only a 400m trip to King, less than 100m to Richmond and 200m to Adelaide. It's not as if their trips will become significantly more challenging. They won't even have to deal with streetcars anymore. And I think that most people can agree that displacing 10,000 vehicles so we can move several times more people on light rail is a logical tradeoff.

The only people I'd be worried about are deliveries. We'd need to work out a way to accommodate them.
 
The traffic on Queen could be significantly reduced and the service on the Queen Streetcar significantly improved if the road were closed to through traffic at strategic points. Local vehicle access to Queen will still be needed, but through trafffic could (and should) be largely eliminated. It would be nice to see this done with flexible bollards on a trial basis between John and Church. If successful, the concept could be expanded with restricted turn movements all along the corridor for everything except cyclists and streetcars.
 
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The DRL doesn't need a launch site for the TBM downtown. Any number of spots on the periphery that would work. Of course you need to use them now before they become condo sites.
 
CityPlaceN1 said:
The DRL doesn't need a launch site for the TBM downtown. Any number of spots on the periphery that would work. Of course you need to use them now before they become condo sites.
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4. It needs 4 launch/extraction sites downtown if you tunnel between Yonge and University. If not tunnelled, it's cut and cover like the Union second platform only a far far larger pit.

They won't tunnel under Yonge or University on the DRL for the same reason they are not for the Eglinton line.
 
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