Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

officedweller said:
It'll be interesting to see how it all squeezes in.
The OL Exchibition Station is supposed to be on the lot just below the Joe Fresh Head Office, so that'll make use of the new GO underpasses, but the entrances will have to be shifted to the north to clear the westbound OL track.

The odd think about the Exhibition Station diagram is that it is shown with outside platforms.
Normally terminus stations - even temporary ones - have centre platforms so passengers can load to either track.
I suppose they could just always use the north platform for incoming and outgoing trains which would provide easier access from Liberty Village (no need to use the underpass) since people from The Ex will always have to use the underpass anyways to walk under the GO tracks. But once the frequency get higher, they'll need to use the tail track to reverse and use both platforms.
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I remember the intent is to have separate inbound and outbound platforms. Trains will reverse on the tail tracks.
 
H4F33Z said:
im gonna bet right now, and say that the govt and metrolinx will remove Platform edge doors from the plan to cut costs, theyve done it before and they're gonna do it again. 100% certain.
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Was it confirmed the first time? IIRC for TYSSE, there were some very early drawings that suggested PSDs, but it was at best an idea floating around.
 
ARG1 said:
Was it confirmed the first time? IIRC for TYSSE, there were some very early drawings that suggested PSDs, but it was at best an idea floating around.
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With a fully automatic and crewless system, they need an additional way to prevent people/objects from being struck by trains. Either they go with a sensor system with will shut down the line if anyone trespasses or go with PSDs. If idiots decide they'll run around the tunnels drunk, they'll still need to send transit police after them. Given all the stupid issues around this city, cheaping out is really not an option.
 
The platform doors have to stay in order for the design to work. The Metrolinx people have been citing Copenhagen, where PSDs are a major element of meeting a reliable 120 second headway time. It's going to be a very small part of the overall expense of building some of these stations.

That said, we are likely to see variance in the PSDs themselves from one station to the next.... for example, you don't need full-height doors outside. Copenhagen:
1600607329219.png


I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something similar to this in Overlea, and maybe even Exhibition.
 
warrens said:
The platform doors have to stay in order for the design to work. The Metrolinx people have been citing Copenhagen, where PSDs are a major element of meeting a reliable 120 second headway time. It's going to be a very small part of the overall expense of building some of these stations.

That said, we are likely to see variance in the PSDs themselves from one station to the next.... for example, you don't need full-height doors outside. Copenhagen:
View attachment 270578

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something similar to this in Overlea, and maybe even Exhibition.
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I really hope they go with the full climate control at all stations as standard like is being done with the REM.
 
NoahB said:
I really hope they go with the full climate control at all stations as standard like is being done with the REM.
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That'd be brilliant for the Overlea station especially, given how bitter the winter winds can be over there, and the station itself is going to be somewhat distant from most of the big Thorncliffe apartment buildings.

But you know as well as I do that Metrolinx and TTC have never placed an especially high priority on the comfort of passengers waiting outside. And with a planned 90 second headway, one could argue that platform-area comfort should not be a high priority. (If you asked me, I'd rather the money be spent on getting heating & AC into the track-level waiting areas at GO stations)
 
warrens said:
The platform doors have to stay in order for the design to work. The Metrolinx people have been citing Copenhagen, where PSDs are a major element of meeting a reliable 120 second headway time. It's going to be a very small part of the overall expense of building some of these stations.
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The largest benefit of PSDs is a capital cost reduction by being able to install platform edge pillars to support structures above it. No super long horizontal spans. Side benefits or detriments won't even factor into the equation against the ~$30M per station savings. Ontario Line is quite cost conscious; platform screen doors would be installed even if they regularly cause service issues requiring maintenance staff on platforms (see Ottawa LRT).

Spadina Line did a series of cost adjustments for the elimination of PSDs when TTCs initial Line 1 automation project was dropped (making automation timing completely unknown while tendering Spadina stations).
 
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For the first time since I joined UT nearly 10 years ago, I have skin directly in this game.
I live in Thorncliffe and I will probably die here in 20-40 years.
Would someone please give me a reality check and tell me if I will ever see this built?
 
Since this all seems an exercise to keep consultants rich - yes, run the OL along the rail corridor north from Millwood through the Celestica lands up to Shops at Don Mills. This way all the people who will live in the luxury condos that will be built over the next 50 years in what is now the dying industrial area along the tracks will be able to walk to the OL that they will never use because their self-driving cars will allow them to continue to ignore the seething mass of immigrants in Thorncliffe and Flemingdon Park who will still need to get on a bus to get to the subway.

Whew, sour grapes, eh? Or the bitter taste of reality?
 
rbt said:
Spadina Line did a series of cost adjustments for the elimination of PSDs when TTCs initial Line 1 automation project was dropped (making automation timing completely unknown while tendering Spadina stations
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The platforms were built with them in mind however because the TTC ended up changing the vendor for the ATC system after work had begun on the existing system they ended up needing the money that would have been put into platform edge doors to start over with a new vendor. At least that's what has been said on the thread that was for the TYSE.
 
Philip Hayward said:
For the first time since I joined UT nearly 10 years ago, I have skin directly in this game.
I live in Thorncliffe and I will probably die here in 20-40 years.
Would someone please give me a reality check and tell me if I will ever see this built? [emphasis added]
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The recent Ontario Line update on the Metrolinx website shows a timeline. There is also a procurement timeline on Infrastructure Ontario's website. Ford wants the federal government to contribute 40% of the cost of the four priority projects (the OL is one of them) although he said before covid-19 he would fund it himself if he didn't receive money from them. There was also recently this article:

ipolitics.ca

Ontario says Ottawa ignored letter seeking commitment to Toronto transit lines - iPolitics

The federal government has yet to respond to a letter sent by Ontario officials in May reiterating the province’s request for a formal funding commitment to four Toronto transit extension projects, the provincial transportation minister’s office says. The four projects include the flagship...
ipolitics.ca ipolitics.ca

So, in terms of an exact date if we will know if it will be built, it's not a 100% guarantee it will be at the moment. However, some factors below that relate to timing. In short, it's hard to guarantee when shovels could get in the ground. The bare minimum would be the timelines released by Metrolinx/Infrastructure Ontario if everything goes perfectly. As in, the money arrives exactly when they need it and the response by the private sector to the RFP is exactly within the timeline specified.

1/ As more documents per the Metrolinx timeline becomes public above, it will assist with understanding the final cost estimate.

2/ Relief is still needed at Yonge-Bloor and York Region is pushing hard for the Yonge North Subway Extension, which needs some kind of relief to be built.

3/ City Council endorsed the high level concept of the Ontario Line. Yes, some Councillors may have local concerns when more documentation is available next year. That said, unlike the Scarborough Subway Extension (SSE), the provincial/federal funding may not need to 'wait' as long as it did for that project before construction starts.

Also, for the SSE, it actually received a funding commitment before the procurement started. So while the same thing could happen before the OL procurement, given the scale and complexity of the OL I doubt funding will be announced too much in advance of the RFP starting.

4/ The timing of the next provincial and a possible federal election because it's a minority government are factors.

5/ Politically, Ford will want to show progress on this before the next Provincial election. He will also continue to insist that the federal Liberals back it. They might also be interested in showing they some kind of progress on this.

Those are the five factors I can think of. Others may have more. At this point it has been said that the financial strain of covid-19 had not changed the preparation work or implementation of any capital project.
 
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Infrastructure investment should not really be too much on the chopping block due to the fallout from COVID (unless infrastructure may no longer be needed as soon as thought). Capital spending doesn't hit the deficit anyway, right?
 
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