Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[TheTigerMaster]

The Science Centre was always the northern terminus.

I'm sure Metrolinx will release a blog post discussing how that makes it 'scientifically valid'.

I would love for Metrolinx to explain why they selected Exhibition and Science Centre as the termini, rather than Osgoode and Sheppard.

It is? They said like the terminus at the Science Centre, the terminus at the exhibition will be designed with future extensions. They imply it'll be extended both ways.

That implication is bunk given that the line has been designed with almost no capacity for future growth or extensions.

 

[11th]

Doug Ford hasn't seen any significant bump in his polling numbers since the crisis started. In an environment which has been quite favourable for incumbents across Canada and internationally, this is not a great sign for his government. He's tied with the Liberals when he really should be far ahead at this point. The election is in two years, and the Progressive Conservatives (and all other parties in government) will inevitably take a hit in the polls, as we try to recovery from the crisis. I wouldn't confidently make any predictions about the outcome of the 2022 election at this point

Was there a more recent poll done? The one I found with the tied numbers is from March, and that was around the time the lockdown began.

 

[NoahB]

I would love for Metrolinx to explain why they selected Exhibition and Science Centre as the termini, rather than Osgoode and Sheppard.

"A closer look at the line shows it was designed to provide extra relief for the crowded TTC Line 1 and Union Station...As with the East Harbour station, [Exhibition Station's] connection will give GO Train riders an entry to the subway system that avoids the need to go to Union Station. "
-Perfecting the alignment: How Toronto’s Ontario Line route was designed

The Ontario Line is as much Union Station Relief Line as it is a Downtown Relief Line for Metrolinx.

 

[Steve X]

I would love for Metrolinx to explain why they selected Exhibition and Science Centre as the termini, rather than Osgoode and Sheppard.

I would like to see them explain if an extension is even possible and the ability to increase capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is "The Line already provides enough capacity for a long time".

 

[rbt]

I would like to see them explain if an extension is even possible and the ability to increase capacity. I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is "The Line already provides enough capacity for a long time".

That's not an unreasonable answer. If the contract life is 30 years and there is zero intention of extension within that 30 year period; then the next maintenance/operations & renewal contract (new rolling stock, signal system updates, vertical transport overhauls, etc.) can include an extension and capacity adjustments.

But, it would be nice if they were upfront about that timeline.

 

[smallspy]

I would love for Metrolinx to explain why they selected Exhibition and Science Centre as the termini, rather than Osgoode and Sheppard.

Exhibition is obvious - it allows them to intercept riders from the Lakeshore West GO line. Ending the line at Osgoode does no such thing. Remember, part of the raison d'être of the Ontario Line is to help off-load the ridership of the various GO lines, and thus push back the requirement to do even more work to expand Union Station.

I would think that Science Centre/Eglinton over Sheppard should be pretty obvious too - doing to limits the size of the funding envelope they need to fill.

Dan

 

[M II A II R II K]

Terminating in between Exhibition and the new King Liberty would have been better to also intercept all of the other western GO lines as well.

 

[salsa]

I would think that Science Centre/Eglinton over Sheppard should be pretty obvious too - doing to limits the size of the funding envelope they need to fill.

Right, but until now Metrolinx has been calling for the RL to go to Sheppard, deeming it absolutely essential to providing meaningful relief to Line 1. So for them to weasel out on their own analysis without any justification or explanation, further calls into question their credibility.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's not an unreasonable answer. If the contract life is 30 years and there is zero intention of extension within that 30 year period; then the next maintenance/operations & renewal contract (new rolling stock, signal system updates, vertical transport overhauls, etc.) can include an extension and capacity adjustments.

But, it would be nice if they were upfront about that timeline.

If Metrolinx really, genuinely believes that the Yonge Line doesn't need capacity relief between now and 2060, then they're truly and utterly incompetent. I don't think they believe that though - I just believe that their political puppet masters don't care.

Also, my concern with the ability to add additional capacity with the Ontario Line is about the physical design. A new contract 40 years from now that dictates that there should be additional capacity, doesn't mean that the additional capacity is possible. For example, station structures (especially underground), might be totally impossible to expand in the future, as buildings go up around them. Or such an expansion might require the Ontario Line to be shut down for an extended period of time, which might be deemed unacceptable.

Exhibition is obvious - it allows them to intercept riders from the Lakeshore West GO line. Ending the line at Osgoode does no such thing. Remember, part of the raison d'être of the Ontario Line is to help off-load the ridership of the various GO lines, and thus push back the requirement to do even more work to expand Union Station.

I would think that Science Centre/Eglinton over Sheppard should be pretty obvious too - doing to limits the size of the funding envelope they need to fill.

Dan

Oh, I get that. What I don't get is prioritizing that GO crowding relief over Line 1 crowding relief.

 

[Voltz]

Oh, I get that. What I don't get is prioritizing that GO crowding relief over Line 1 crowding relief.

Probably has to do with GO and Union Station being a provincial issue, so that's where their priority is.

 

[syn]

I would love for Metrolinx to explain why they selected Exhibition and Science Centre as the termini, rather than Osgoode and Sheppard.

Good question.

One of the reasons for the takeover (one that isn't addressed much anymore) is that the province funding these projects meant they could be built faster and at a larger scale while keeping costs reasonable.

There's absolutely no reason this shouldn't be going all the way to Sheppard, as a full capacity subway.

That, plus a Sheppard extension with a stop at STC and a refresh of the current RT would've been the best solution for everyone.

 

[sixrings]

Good question.

One of the reasons for the takeover (one that isn't addressed much anymore) is that the province funding these projects meant they could be built faster and at a larger scale while keeping costs reasonable.

There's absolutely no reason this shouldn't be going all the way to Sheppard, as a full capacity subway.

That, plus a Sheppard extension with a stop at STC and a refresh of the current RT would've been the best solution for everyone.

That was my preference to but you know I hate subways. That or I was trying to force STC riders longer distance commutes.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Good question.

One of the reasons for the takeover (one that isn't addressed much anymore) is that the province funding these projects meant they could be built faster and at a larger scale while keeping costs reasonable.

There's absolutely no reason this shouldn't be going all the way to Sheppard, as a full capacity subway.

That, plus a Sheppard extension with a stop at STC and a refresh of the current RT would've been the best solution for everyone.

On top of that, I have a strong suspicion that the Eglinton to Sheppard segment would’ve been significantly cheaper than Osgoode to Exhibition, especially if it were elevated (as it probably should be). This would be both cheaper and more effective than current plans. Bizarre decision making all around

 

[salsa]

On top of that, I have a strong suspicion that the Eglinton to Sheppard segment would’ve been significantly cheaper than Osgoode to Exhibition, especially if it were elevated (as it probably should be). This would be both cheaper and more effective than current plans. Bizarre decision making all around

On the other hand, it's good that the most challenging parts of the line are being addressed first rather than never. It's also an area that's growing rapidly and becoming increasingly difficult to build in as time goes on. In transit politics, it's rare that the downtown core gets this much attention over the usual noise from the suburbs. But that being said, I think the province should consider dropping the Eglinton West subway in exchange for building the OL to Sheppard.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I would love for Metrolinx to explain why they selected Exhibition and Science Centre as the termini, rather than Osgoode and Sheppard.



That implication is bunk given that the line has been designed with almost no capacity for future growth or extensions.

Agreed.

"A closer look at the line shows it was designed to provide extra relief for the crowded TTC Line 1 and Union Station...As with the East Harbour station, [Exhibition Station's] connection will give GO Train riders an entry to the subway system that avoids the need to go to Union Station. "
-Perfecting the alignment: How Toronto’s Ontario Line route was designed

The Ontario Line is as much Union Station Relief Line as it is a Downtown Relief Line for Metrolinx.

Exhibition is obvious - it allows them to intercept riders from the Lakeshore West GO line. Ending the line at Osgoode does no such thing. Remember, part of the raison d'être of the Ontario Line is to help off-load the ridership of the various GO lines, and thus push back the requirement to do even more work to expand Union Station.

I would think that Science Centre/Eglinton over Sheppard should be pretty obvious too - doing to limits the size of the funding envelope they need to fill.

Dan

Also, this plan neglects Parkdale and High Park.



True, but it still goes through queen does it not? Why not just take the DRL plans, stick with TTC rolling stock, and come up with a plan through union. No point in making people walk 10 minutes.