Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[syn]

If we don't build the Ontario line there will be people on this thread 10 years from now claiming Ford had the best plan but there was a witch hunt against him. That said I support building the drl.

Yes, all while leaving out major details and the fact that costs weren't based on any kind of design work being done.

Let's hope the city can negotiate a return to the original RL concept, but expanded north.

 

[syn]

How is extending to Sheppard a massive scope expansion? The DRL South + North should cost roughly the same as the OL. We’d essentially be replacing the western half of the OL proposal with a northern extension to Sheppard.

Agreed.

I'd also argue it would be far more impactful than the current OL design.

 

[Allandale25]

Globe article (paywalled):

Conservatives, NDP vow Toronto subway funding

Tory Leader Andrew Scheer made the announcement Tuesday morning in Markham, Ont., a city that is part of the suburban swath of ridings north of Toronto and key to the Conservative campaign’s election hopes on Oct. 21

www.theglobeandmail.com

"NDP spokeswoman Nina Amrov said the New Democrats would “allocate the necessary funding” to ensure the subway lines are built as long as Toronto identifies them as transit priorities."

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes, all while leaving out major details and the fact that costs weren't based on any kind of design work being done.

Let's hope the city can negotiate a return to the original RL concept, but expanded north.

How is extending to Sheppard a massive scope expansion? The DRL South + North should cost roughly the same as the OL. We’d essentially be replacing the western half of the OL proposal with a northern extension to Sheppard.

I would also say relief line west should be done too. no reason not too.

 

[Northern Light]

From the Star:

Ford government eyes dropping takeover of TTC in exchange for Ontario Line support: Sources

The compromise is part of talks between the city and the province about the future of transit in Toronto.

www.thestar.com

Why would the city want to get stuck with a legacy, high capital needs system, with basically no say over extensions to the lines in exchange for providing support? What's the win here? If they moaned so loudly about uploading it - do it.

AoD

It would be entirely generous to assume the Ford government ever intended a wholesale upload.

However, assuming they did; here's what they discovered.

1) Lifting a massive asset off the City's books isn't that easy; you must replace the asset, unless you lower the associated liabilities otherwise you would destabilize the City's finances. You just can't go *poof*, we'll take
those billions off your hands and books, it doesn't work that way. The balance sheet has to balance. I expect the numbers the province is looking at are very troublesome, even before factoring in unfunded liabilities based on asset condition.

2) The logistical headaches of trying to break-up a seamlessly integrated system are substantial. You might think, well Toronto can just keep the buses/streetcars; but the things is the operators are cross-trained; transfer policies become issues, including the need for tapping in/out off surface vehicles at stations, and service levels of one part of the system are dictated by what the other part is doing.

OR one might think:

This entire exercise has been about delaying the spending beyond the immediate government term. The Ontario Line will NOT be built as currently envisioned; and any endorsement of said idea, other than face-saving is strictly about further
pushing off actual spending until the project returns to the RL variation, possibly with phased extensions further N/E to Don Mills/Eg.

 

[syn]

I would also say relief line west should be done too. no reason not too.

For sure - but it might be too much to digest as one large project. The west should be Phase 2 and it should also be a major priority.

 

[sixrings]

This entire exercise has been about delaying the spending beyond the immediate government term.

Don't be silly and buy into the media hype. This clearly is a left wing conspiracy to boycott Ford from his creative out of the box thinking and to continue to build expensive transit to create union jobs. There is only one tax payer folks. Stop the gravy train!

 

[Neutrino]

^helpful as always.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

For sure - but it might be too much to digest as one large project. The west should be Phase 2 and it should also be a major priority.

I think that is the acceptable risk if we don't want an "ontario line" to happen again. At best this is 9.5 billion all together. Still under half of the entire upload.

 

[Nadnev]

I would think the tunnel can go under condos if it is placed deep enough. However, going very deep may not be possible if the line needs to surface before the Don bridge. He probably has a point here.

They build subway lines all the time in cities like Hong Kong and Shanghai. These places are so densely packed with highrises, yet they still manage to get built. I don't see how tunnelling under condos on the western side of the OL is overly problematic.

 

[syn]

I think that is the acceptable risk if we don't want an "ontario line" to happen again. At best this is 9.5 billion all together. Still under half of the entire upload.

Good point. There's certainly a benefit to doing it all at once.

I just wonder if it would be a hard sell politically.

If the city can get back control of the TTC, I'd try to get the current Liberals to agree to funding (or at least mostly funding) the entire line.

That would be a huge boon to their election chances in the GTA.

The chances of this happening are slim unfortunately.

 

[pman]

Surely the section between Eglinton and Shepard could be mostly above ground.

 

[p_xavier]

So building a metro under 10 years is ridiculous now?! Only in Toronto maybe (and New York).

 

[W. K. Lis]

So building a metro under 10 years is ridiculous now?! Only in Toronto maybe (and New York).

The problem is that the automobile users or more actually the non-public transit users keep putting up roadblocks for ANY public transit project.

 

[sixrings]

The problem is that the automobile users or more actually the non-public transit users keep putting up roadblocks for ANY public transit project.

Correct. If the auto users didn't protest the shut down of the Allen for the Eglinton line that thing would be finishing up right now.