Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

W. K. Lis said:
Ontario Transportation Minister Jeff Yurek worked as a pharmacist in a family business in St. Thomas, Ontario. I can see how that background gave Jeff the experience needed to decide on transit problems in Toronto... not.
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It's a feature of our parliamentary system. Other than finance, law (AG) and health, it is not uncommon for a cabinet minister to have no nexus with their portfolio, and even in those three it is not ironclad. The required knowledge is supposed to come from the professional bureaucracy.
As least it's better than the US where the cabinet is often full of party hacks.
 
Just to clarify, I meant that Sheppard west should come before Sheppard east, but Sheppard west shouldn't come before Yonge and more importantly, the full relief line.
 
lenaitch said:
It's a feature of our parliamentary system. Other than finance, law (AG) and health, it is not uncommon for a cabinet minister to have no nexus with their portfolio, and even in those three it is not ironclad. The required knowledge is supposed to come from the professional bureaucracy.
As least it's better than the US where the cabinet is often full of party hacks.
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Look at the list of Health Ministers, and you will see that a Doctor is far from the norm.
Finance as well - I am not sure exactly what type of accreditation you are looking for, but I think there is a mixture of MBA, miscellaneous Business degree, Lawyer.
Actually, I understand that the bureaucracy is starting to lose its "professionalism".
I know a Director position in MTO that no longer requires an engineer. Back 30 years ago, 2 levels higher required an engineer. I think it's a reflection on society where expertise is not valued. I could point out the credentials of Ford and Trudeau, yet they were both accepted and won. I think it's because there are so many graduates with general arts degrees who don't feel that credentials have value - because they have no ability to achieve them.
 
lenaitch said:
It's a feature of our parliamentary system. Other than finance, law (AG) and health, it is not uncommon for a cabinet minister to have no nexus with their portfolio, and even in those three it is not ironclad. The required knowledge is supposed to come from the professional bureaucracy.
As least it's better than the US where the cabinet is often full of party hacks.
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Al Palladini was the Minister of Transportation (1995–1997) under Mike Harris. He ran a car dealership in Vaughan (Woodbridge). He filled in the Eglinton West Subway in 1995, along with other anti-transit edicts.
 
BurlOak said:
Look at the list of Health Ministers, and you will see that a Doctor is far from the norm.
Finance as well - I am not sure exactly what type of accreditation you are looking for, but I think there is a mixture of MBA, miscellaneous Business degree, Lawyer.
Actually, I understand that the bureaucracy is starting to lose its "professionalism".
I know a Director position in MTO that no longer requires an engineer. Back 30 years ago, 2 levels higher required an engineer. I think it's a reflection on society where expertise is not valued. I could point out the credentials of Ford and Trudeau, yet they were both accepted and won. I think it's because there are so many graduates with general arts degrees who don't feel that credentials have value - because they have no ability to achieve them.
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Fair enough. I stated too broadly. My mind was focused on AG where it has been the norm to appoint a lawyer (and probably more common that lawyers crossover to elected positions than the other professions). For finance, at least they try to get somebody who has a business background, if for no other reason than credibility with the financial sector. Credibility in the front row cabinet seats is more important than if the MNRF has actually ever seen a tree.

It's not only that the bureaucracy is loosing its professionalism. In addition, senior professional staff in ministries and their departments were not seen as sufficiently conducive, promoting of or sensitive to the 'broader government agenda' (which includes getting re-elected). Too focused on delivering the service that their department exists for, the buggers. To use your example, it might not be necessarily bad if an MBA or someone with a degree in public administration manages engineers (the fact that you are an engineer does not necessarily guarantee that you will be a good senior manager), but it is a problem when they try to tell the engineer how to do their job or overrides their professional conclusions. At least that's how it is happening in the ministry I worked in.

Bureaucracy exists to maintain and perpetuate itself. If any public good flows from it, it is either coincidence or serendipitous.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Al Palladini was the Minister of Transportation (1995–1997) under Mike Harris. He ran a car dealership in Vaughan (Woodbridge). He filled in the Eglinton West Subway in 1995, along with other anti-transit edicts.
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Al Palladini Pinetree Lincoln Mercury. 'Cuz any Pal a dini - is a pal of mine. :) Great slogan.
 
Kyle Campbell said:
Right now you'll get a half baked DRL. I can imagine the Ford government creating a copy of Vacouver's woefully inadequate Canada Line and declaring victory otherwise.
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Hopefully doesn't come across as defeatist. But if the alternative was nothing, at this point I'd honestly take an undersized Canada Line-type RL and be quite happy. Sure it may be at-capacity pretty quick, but at least it hits the right notes in terms of rapid transit coverage and service. Not to mention offering a good bit of breathing room for key parts of the core subway network, bus network, and streetcar system.
 
44 North said:
Hopefully doesn't come across as defeatist. But if the alternative was nothing, at this point I'd honestly take an undersized Canada Line-type RL and be quite happy. Sure it may be at-capacity pretty quick, but at least it hits the right notes in terms of rapid transit coverage and service. Not to mention offering a good bit of breathing room for key parts of the core subway network, bus network, and streetcar system.
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I actually have a preference for 2 or 3 highly automated mid capacity lines (build one per decade) over a single high capacity line.

30k pphpd can be achieved in numerous different ways which have far higher station density than the relief line will offer. When we build the giant solution with high operating costs to accompany it, it might be another 40 years before downtown can justify another major line.
 
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Obviously care about this project from a system effectiveness and economic development perspective for the greater good of the City but I was thinking about it from a personal selfish perspective and I can't really envision what impact it would have on my downtown elitist life? A Queen-Pape station might have use if I wanted to visit a Leslieville restaurant on date night?

While that exercise is navel gazing it has real implications for trip generation. Current under construction or completed projects have some clear-cut personal utility: UPX for guests and as a potentially reliable Pearson gateway at Union or Bloor, I can take the girls to the science centre when Eglington crosstown opens, Spadina gives direct access to York U and as a City-Limits bypass for suburban pickup or drop-off.
 
TrickyRicky said:
Obviously care about this project from a system effectiveness and economic development perspective for the greater good of the City but I was thinking about it from a personal selfish perspective and I can't really envision what impact it would have on my downtown elitist life? A Queen-Pape station might have use if I wanted to visit a Leslieville restaurant on date night?

While that exercise is navel gazing it has real implications for trip generation. Current under construction or completed projects have some clear-cut personal utility: UPX for guests and as a potentially reliable Pearson gateway at Union or Bloor, I can take the girls to the science centre when Eglington crosstown opens, Spadina gives direct access to York U and as a City-Limits bypass for suburban pickup or drop-off.
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Someone around Pape can have a one-seat ride to City Hall.
 
TrickyRicky said:
Obviously care about this project from a system effectiveness and economic development perspective for the greater good of the City but I was thinking about it from a personal selfish perspective and I can't really envision what impact it would have on my downtown elitist life? A Queen-Pape station might have use if I wanted to visit a Leslieville restaurant on date night?

While that exercise is navel gazing it has real implications for trip generation. Current under construction or completed projects have some clear-cut personal utility: UPX for guests and as a potentially reliable Pearson gateway at Union or Bloor, I can take the girls to the science centre when Eglington crosstown opens, Spadina gives direct access to York U and as a City-Limits bypass for suburban pickup or drop-off.
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Also, with the DRL you might be able to get a seat on the Yonge line or not be up in someone else's business since some of the East transit riders will be using the DRL instead of transferring at Yonge-Bloor. might not seem like much now but will matter a lot especially if the extend the line into Richmond Hill. A little more elitist elbow room ;p
 
This
rbt said:
I actually have a preference for 2 or 3 highly automated mid capacity lines (build one per decade) over a single high capacity line.

30k pphpd can be achieved in numerous different ways which have far higher station density than the relief line will offer. When we build the giant solution with high operating costs to accompany it, it might be another 40 years before downtown can justify another major line.
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This is exactly what Singapore is doing with its new MRT lines.

Of course, they're going faster than one per decade.
 
BurlOak said:
Look at the list of Health Ministers, and you will see that a Doctor is far from the norm.
Finance as well - I am not sure exactly what type of accreditation you are looking for, but I think there is a mixture of MBA, miscellaneous Business degree, Lawyer.
Actually, I understand that the bureaucracy is starting to lose its "professionalism".
I know a Director position in MTO that no longer requires an engineer. Back 30 years ago, 2 levels higher required an engineer. I think it's a reflection on society where expertise is not valued. I could point out the credentials of Ford and Trudeau, yet they were both accepted and won. I think it's because there are so many graduates with general arts degrees who don't feel that credentials have value - because they have no ability to achieve them.
Click to expand...
Ouch...
 
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