Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Amare]

^That's not my point. My point is that the city is looking into ways at reducing the costs of the project no matter what the cost-cutting measure is, and how unviable and lopsided the idea may be. As a result, I dont even think ploatfrom screen doors has even crossed their minds due to the fact that: a) it's too early in the project cycle to determine that, and b) it would increase the cost of the entire project which is the complete opposite of what they have been trying to do.

 

[Leo_Chan]

^That's not my point. My point is that the city is looking into ways at reducing the costs of the project no matter what the cost-cutting measure is, and how unviable and lopsided the idea may be. As a result, I dont even think ploatfrom screen doors has even crossed their minds due to the fact that: a) it's too early in the project cycle to determine that, and b) it would increase the cost of the entire project which is the complete opposite of what they have been trying to do.

Have any councillors or staff explicitly said that they want to reduce the cost as much as possible? I forget where I’ve heard this (maybe a TTC meeting), but someone said that the Relief Line should be built correctly the first time.

 

[Streety McCarface]

This is just plain wrong. In no way should Strachan, Ossington and Lansdowne be skipped. Likewise Parliament on the east side. This is the problem I find with rushing through a DRL plan on a limited budget. It's overall value and worth potential gets compromised.

We really have no information regarding what's actually going to happen when they build this line. They may end up finding that because TBMs are going to be facing west, that they continue boring until bathurst or even further west for extraction or something. We really have no idea.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Have any councillors or staff explicitly said that they want to reduce the cost as much as possible? I forget where I’ve heard this (maybe a TTC meeting), but someone said that the Relief Line should be built correctly the first time.

It's an 8 billion dollar line. It's not like it is going to anywhere near cheap whether it has PSDs or 6 car train platforms (which it really should) or not.

I think they're holding off of 6 car trains until RL long is opened. To me, it seems highly illogical since it is a downtown subway line, but who am I to comment?

 

[Kitsune]

The TPAP is expected to start for North at the end of 2020 - if they do indeed meet that deadline there may only be a 2-3 year gap between north and south opening dates.

 

[Amare]

Have any councillors or staff explicitly said that they want to reduce the cost as much as possible?

Councillors and staff don't have to explicitly state it, their actions speak louder than words. Just look at what's been going on with Crosstown West extention which was sent back for "further study" since the staff report recommended at-grade intersections for virtually every intersection instead of properly looking into grade separations.

 

[micheal_can]

I know its still early in development but what are the chances the DRL gets built with platform doors (be it Half-height or Full)? Since the line is being built from scratch and will be built with ATC pre-installed I can't really see a reason not to besides cheaping out and kicking the can down the road for another generation to deal with.

Can someone help me understand why they are even needed?

 

[JSF-1]

Well besides the obvious thing, they are also the most effective way of keeping garbage off the tracks; and unfortunately its much easier to put up barriers than convince people not to through there shit on the tracks. You can't cure stupid, but you can contain it.

 

[44 North]

We really have no information regarding what's actually going to happen when they build this line. They may end up finding that because TBMs are going to be facing west, that they continue boring until bathurst or even further west for extraction or something. We really have no idea.

This is my view. Too many major unanswered questions. I don't think I'm being impatient for believing they should be known by now...DRTES was finished many years ago. How's it going to connect with Line 2, yard access, why terminate at Osgoode, are they planning on extracting there, why not terminate at Spadina or somewhere that an extraction can easily be done (e.g Trinity Bellwoods), why plan using twin bore and not single bore like SSE, how will 501 W be upgraded to serve as a shuttle? Maybe the meetings will answer some of these questions. If anyone goes and gets some intel don't hesitate to post.

I don't see the issue with 4-car. It will still be built for 6-car, just merely operated as 4-car with punch-out walls a la Sheppard. Personally my view is that work on RLS will be delayed to catch up with completion of RLN, and - hoping nothing gets cancelled - it will be decided to use a narrower train. Shave off half a metre from the conventional subway (3.1->2.6), multiply by two tracks, should give an extra metre of wiggle room. With stations expandable to 6-car it wouldn't be a light metro, still full subway. Just with narrower cars. I believe this could help thread through the core.

 

[MisterF]

A subway line through downtown with narrow cars and short trains is going to be over capacity in no time. The YRNS estimated that Lines 1, 2 and 3 (DRL long) would have peak hour ridership distributed almost equally between them. Building the DRL to anything less than the standards of the other two lines would be incredibly shortsighted. This is going to be the last subway built downtown in most of our lifetimes. It has to be done right.

 

[44 North]

A subway line through downtown with narrow cars and short trains is going to be over capacity in no time. The YRNS estimated that Lines 1, 2 and 3 (DRL long) would have peak hour ridership distributed almost equally between them. Building the DRL to anything less than the standards of the other two lines would be incredibly shortsighted. This is going to be the last subway built downtown in most of our lifetimes. It has to be done right.

The "short trains" would just be temporary, it'd still be designed for 6-car. Whenever they want 6-car they can break the wall and make it so. And any capacity decrease with narrow trains (relative to the hulking >3m conventional subway) is minor. IMO at least. If it can still carry over 30k pphpd, which it could, all should be fine. This wouldn't be a Canada Line scenario where things are planned way too small. Everything would still be designed for max usage. If the alternative to this scenario are claims from the Prov that no RL is needed because Line 1 can carry 45k pphpd, or that GO can solve all our problems - both of which were recent realitites - then I'd welcome an ever-so-slightly less conventional RL rolling stock with open arms.

 

[drum118]

The "short trains" would just be temporary, it'd still be designed for 6-car. Whenever they want 6-car they can break the wall and make it so. And any capacity decrease with narrow trains (relative to the hulking >3m conventional subway) is minor. IMO at least. If it can still carry over 30k pphpd, which it could, all should be fine. This wouldn't be a Canada Line scenario where things are planned way too small. Everything would still be designed for max usage. If the alternative to this scenario are claims from the Prov that no RL is needed because Line 1 can carry 45k pphpd, or that GO can solve all our problems - both of which were recent realitites - then I'd welcome an ever-so-slightly less conventional RL rolling stock with open arms.

If you going to do it right, build the stations to handle 8 cars trains either as single or DD EMU, prefer DD. Need high speed crossovers as well. No issue in running short trains on startup, but if line is taken to Steeles like it should, short trains will be around a short time. Forget about building the stub wall on day one. Make sure there is larger radius than the current one to cut down on the squealing.

 

[Leo_Chan]

If you going to do it right, build the stations to handle 8 cars trains either as single or DD EMU, prefer DD. Need high speed crossovers as well. No issue in running short trains on startup, but if line is taken to Steeles like it should, short trains will be around a short time. Forget about building the stub wall on day one. Make sure there is larger radius than the current one to cut down on the squealing.

Is the squealing around Downsview Park good?

 

[nfitz]

Likewise Parliament on the east side.

Parliament is hard to service, being only 400 metres from Sherbourne - and heck, 300 metres from the proposed secondary exit for Moss Park station near Ontario and Queen. In the other direction it's a 400 metre walk to Sumach station.

Similarly there's no Parliament stop on the Danforth subway - where it's about 300 metres walk one way to the Glen Road exit for Sherbourne station and 300 metres the other way to the entrance at Castle Frank Road. Though I keep hoping they'll convert the second exit for Castle Frank on the west side of the station to an entrance - which would make it only 200 metres.

 

[micheal_can]

A subway line through downtown with narrow cars and short trains is going to be over capacity in no time. The YRNS estimated that Lines 1, 2 and 3 (DRL long) would have peak hour ridership distributed almost equally between them. Building the DRL to anything less than the standards of the other two lines would be incredibly shortsighted. This is going to be the last subway built downtown in most of our lifetimes. It has to be done right.

If you going to do it right, build the stations to handle 8 cars trains either as single or DD EMU, prefer DD. Need high speed crossovers as well. No issue in running short trains on startup, but if line is taken to Steeles like it should, short trains will be around a short time. Forget about building the stub wall on day one. Make sure there is larger radius than the current one to cut down on the squealing.

Is the squealing around Downsview Park good?

If the only reason for short trains is the noise, then build the curves to reduce the noise. The DRL should be build with platforms that are at least 1 car longer than the other subways currently are.