Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[steveintoronto]

So, Pink Metro Line? Might be done around the same time as our own DRL, maybe later, clearly not before.

It's remarkably similar in ways to the Relief Line (in all but engineering) in that so many hang their dreams on so little. The Relief Line *will* get built, and sooner than some think, but not by the City's concept, but by the Province's, and that's RER.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Valérie Plante’s key campaign promise of a new Pink Line metro isn’t a guarantee now that the Project Montreal leader is the acting mayor of Montreal.

There’s still the not-so-little problem of funding the estimated $6 billion public transit project, and neither the provincial or federal government is committing to fitting the bill.

https://www.mtlblog.com/news/why-valerie-plante-cant-build-a-pink-line-for-montreal

The Relief Line *will* get built, and sooner than some think, but not by the City's concept, but by the Province's, and that's RER.

Proviso to that: Look for an RER rolling stock model to emerge that is single deck, not DD, and virtually identical to the UK Class 345:





More images
British Rail Class 345
The Class 345 is a Bombardier Aventra design electric multiple unit being manufactured for London's Crossrail.Wikipedia
Coupling system: Railway coupling
Current collection method: Pantograph
Manufacturer: Bombardier Transportation
Line(s) served: Elizabeth Line
Number in service: 10
In service: 22 June 2017
Fleet numbers: 345001–345070

The necessity for this design is a high platform, however, and that may help or hinder applicability to the Relief Line being RER in tunnel. A point for further discussion.

 

[rbt]

But then why haven't we seen that in the RL reports? It's all twin bore. The entire Carlaw-Pape issue could've been avoided from the start, seeing that a single bore wouldn't have encroached on any properties' along Pape like the twin bore did.

Quite the opposite. Single bore requires more space between foundations than double bore. Only really works, in most of Toronto, under a 6 lane roadway.

It'll not happen downtown unless the technology changes significantly (see Crossrail building stabilization efforts for examples of what that may entail).

 

[W. K. Lis]

Quite the opposite. Single bore requires more space between foundations than double bore. Only really works, in most of Toronto, under a 6 lane roadway.

It'll not happen downtown unless the technology changes significantly (see Crossrail building stabilization efforts for examples of what that may entail).

Unless they go deep, which they have to, to get under existing subway tunnels.

 

[44 North]

Quite the opposite. Single bore requires more space between foundations than double bore. Only really works, in most of Toronto, under a 6 lane roadway.

It'll not happen downtown unless the technology changes significantly (see Crossrail building stabilization efforts for examples of what that may entail).

Hm I'm a bit confused by this. If the single bore has a narrower footprint than twin bore, then by default wouldn't it already offer significantly more space between the tunnel walls and nearby foundation? Obviously there are other issues to contend with when it comes to a massively larger tunnel, but on the whole the actual infrastructure footprint would be lower.

And with the Pape/Carlaw jig, the bigger issue seemed to be that the City was encroaching beyond their ROW onto private subsurface property. Actually I don't remember, but it seems like with narrower footprint like what is offered by a single tunnel vs two smaller ones that a lot of the legal issues of obtaining subsurface rights could be avoided.

 

[macookie]

Montreal Solution.... the REM plans and the Pink Line compromise... could be built instead.

Whereby only southern portion of REM being built (to downtown) and that it branches into the Pink Line and the Pink Line that goes into Lachine can be extended to the airport.

Day 2 and Valerie Plante is meeting the government of Quebec to discuss the Pink line financing. Valerie Plante met Justin Trudeau last night and he's a Montrealer after all.

I was listening to Montreal radio and feedback from Ottawa is that it's the province's responsibility to submit transit priorities. Ottawa pointed out that they have yet to received a formal blue line extension proposal from Quebec. Also, Quebec has approximately $7B for public transit. The REM is being awarded $1.5B and the blue line will get something. Laval and Longueuil wants more subway stations and Quebec City seems ready to come back with a LRT proposal. There won't be much left for the Pink Line.

So political analysts says that the best she can hope for is a clear schedule for the Pink Line and the true cost of the project. For the next election, she'll need to have the blue line under construction and a clear schedule on the pink line to help her get reelected.

So, Pink Metro Line? Might be done around the same time as our own DRL, maybe later, clearly not before.

 

[nephersir7]

Proposed station locations for Montreal's pink line.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/embed?mid=19LSTBgPk_zS65NuAsoFat5L1KAUGhcsj

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...o-localisation-projet-montreal-plante-ouellet

 

[Cobra]

Proposed station locations for Montreal's pink line.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/embed?mid=19LSTBgPk_zS65NuAsoFat5L1KAUGhcsj

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...o-localisation-projet-montreal-plante-ouellet

The whole line is indeed needed. Ridership wouldn't be an issue either. It comes down to politics and Valerie Plante shouldn't be underestimated like Coderre did. If I were the Quebec Liberals, I would be careful before acting like snobs and say no to the Pink Metro Line, or they could open the door to the CAQ to champion the project and beat them on the Island.

 

[MisterF]

Can be summed up in three words: Bombardier, Liberals, Quebec.

Sure, just replace Liberals with "every political party", Bombardier with "every train manufacturer", and Quebec with, well, Quebec does seem to have more corruption than any other province, I'll give you that. Still, they've built more rapid transit in the last few decades than Ontario has so it's worth looking at how they do things.

 

[rbt]

Still, [Quebec] built more rapid transit in the last few decades than Ontario has so it's worth looking at how they do things.

Really? Where? I'm only aware of the Orange line extension and a couple of BRT routes in Montreal since the mid 90's.

I suppose Quebec City has fared a little better with their 800 series (15 minute frequency) network but it wouldn't be hard to argue recently launched TTC express routes more than matches it for the same reason I'd rather be waiting for a Finch 199 than a Viva Purple.

Also, all Quebec BRT routes were improvements on existing service. If that counts, then I'd toss the 130km of GO Lake Shore improvements onto that list for Ontario.

Quebec has done some great stuff that are worth watching. However, in Montreal they also toss out even more plans than we do in Toronto; further demonstrating planning announcements != construction.

Vancouver has a good track record over the last 20 years; it's also BCs only city requiring substantial transit investment.

 

[MisterF]

Really? Where? I'm only aware of the Orange line extension and a couple of BRT routes in Montreal since the mid 90's.

I suppose Quebec City has fared a little better with their 800 series (15 minute frequency) network but it wouldn't be hard to argue recently launched TTC express routes more than matches it for the same reason I'd rather be waiting for a Finch 199 than a Viva Purple.

Also, all Quebec BRT routes were improvements on existing service. If that counts, then I'd toss the 130km of GO Lake Shore improvements onto that list for Ontario.

Quebec has done some great stuff that are worth watching. However, in Montreal they also toss out even more plans than we do in Toronto; further demonstrating planning announcements != construction.

Vancouver has a good track record over the last 20 years; it's also BCs only city requiring substantial transit investment.

I was mostly referring to the fact that Montreal has a longer subway system than Toronto with higher ridership and built it in less time. Maybe "few" was the wrong word to use to refer to the number of decades. If REM is actually built on schedule that lead will only widen. Which city's rapid transit system is longer depends on how you define that phrase; I wouldn't consider a street running BRT or LRT to count. If you count RER and the underground part of Eglinton, which I would, that will tip the scales back in Toronto's favour. But a lot of people (especially on forums like this) have a more rigid definition of rapid transit.

Vancouver has a longer RT system too. Yes it's BC's only city that really needs it but BC also has a much smaller population. There was nothing preventing Toronto and Ontario from building a Skytrain type system on lesser used routes that don't need full subway, like Eglinton. Instead we went with LRTs that stop at red lights.

 

[robmausser]

I was mostly referring to the fact that Montreal has a longer subway system than Toronto with higher ridership and built it in less time.

Montreal Metro
System length 69.2 km

Toronto Subway
System length 68.3 km

Its barely longer. In December Toronto's system will be longer by 7km with the opening of the Spadina Extension.

Their ridership is more, but barely so.

Montreal Metro
Annual ridership 356,096,000

Toronto Subway
Annual ridership 302,806,300

 

[W. K. Lis]

By 2021, they would add the 19-kilometre Eglinton Crosstown LRT (not counting the Eglinton West portion in Etobicoke). By 2022, they would also add the 11-kilometre light rail transit line that will run on Finch Avenue West.

 

[W. K. Lis]

(There are 26 closures left to be planned for 2019-2020 to complete TTC’s contractual obligations for Eglinton Crosstown, on Line 1.)

A heads up point to remember should they start construction of the Relief Line. The above closures include work for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT AND Line 1 at the Eglinton Station. I would expect to see the very same closures at Osgoode Station, Queen Station (City Hall), and Pape Stations, when construction for the DRL is needed to connect with Lines 1 & 2.

 

[Hopkins123]

Proposed station locations for Montreal's pink line.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/embed?mid=19LSTBgPk_zS65NuAsoFat5L1KAUGhcsj

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...o-localisation-projet-montreal-plante-ouellet

I wish the section west of downtown was being extended as the Blue Line to make good use of the complex interchange at Snowdon but otherwise good map. It seems to borrow largely from the proposed White Line (Pie IX - Line 7) and Blue Line extension into Lachine from the 1980s.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I think this is getting quite off topic discussing so much about Montreal’s transit. Maybe create a thread just for comparing different cities’ transit systems?