Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

What points did you make? That ignoring an unpredictable act of God in the form of COVID, and ignoring an engineering issue (the underpinning of Eglinton station, which was not an act of God and should not be discontinued in the delay calculations) means you can extrapolate to a completely different project, with a completely different scope, and its own set of challenges, being built in a completely decade with its own history yet to be written?

Yeah, I'm unconvinced. As stated above, it is a project of such immense scale that even someone who knows what they're doing would have a difficult time with it. It is extremely rare for a project in today's day and age to be delivered on time and on budget - the exceedingly simple Finch West LRT, built in the middle of nowhere, and almost completely at surface is two years delayed, but we're supposed to trust that the Ontario Line won't be? - and somehow, the numpties at Metrolinx are going to be the ones to buck that trend, because reasons.

I repeat again what your verbatim statement was:
again for those in the back.....the ontario line will be complete by 2031
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Unless, of course, there is another pandemic, or an economic meltdown, or labour issues, or engineering issues, or a crisis of leadership, or a contractor who goes under, or a contractor who doesn't build something according to specification and it has to be redone, or a supply chain issue, or a lawsuit, or an industrial accident, or...
 
T3G said:
What points did you make? That ignoring an unpredictable act of God in the form of COVID, and ignoring an engineering issue (the underpinning of Eglinton station, which was not an act of God and should not be discontinued in the delay calculations) means you can extrapolate to a completely different project, with a completely different scope, and its own set of challenges, being built in a completely decade with its own history yet to be written?

Yeah, I'm unconvinced. As stated above, it is a project of such immense scale that even someone who knows what they're doing would have a difficult time with it. It is extremely rare for a project in today's day and age to be delivered on time and on budget - the exceedingly simple Finch West LRT, built in the middle of nowhere, and almost completely at surface is two years delayed, but we're supposed to trust that the Ontario Line won't be? - and somehow, the numpties at Metrolinx are going to be the ones to buck that trend, because reasons.

I repeat again what your verbatim statement was:



Unless, of course, there is another pandemic, or an economic meltdown, or labour issues, or engineering issues, or a crisis of leadership, or a contractor who goes under, or a contractor who doesn't build something according to specification and it has to be redone, or a supply chain issue, or a lawsuit, or an industrial accident, or...
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no you skipped over my points
middle of nowhere, and almost completely at surface is two years delayed,
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This is just straight wrong do your research before saying things you dont know about.

here some info for you to start: https://www.infrastructureontario.c...ed-for-finch-west-light-rail-transit-project/

look at those dates.......

The crux of my argument is that this project on the face of it looks quite complex, but is actually really simple comparatively speaking. From cut-cover at queen to deep underground stations that remove any idea of unknowns in relation to a 50 year old subway, to simple elevated lines in flemingdon park.

dont get me wrong im not predicting a date, im predicting a YEAR that it will be completed

im saying it will be completed in 2031 and yea sure maybe 2032, but the point is, and the reason i posted that is that there project wont be endlessly delayed like the crosstown.

like what this guy is saying... this is why i posted the original comment:

GioBuild said:
2030 or 2031? lol.

I think we'll all be lucky if the entire Ontario Line finishes before 2036. I'd be shocked. More like 2040 in my estimation.
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From yesterday.
At Queen and McGee
PXL_20231001_220528829.jpg


From Eastern Ave.
PXL_20231001_221057046.jpg

PXL_20231001_221123801.jpg

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Lest people get carried away with endless speculation; I asked my source on this project for a sense of where the schedule currently lies.

The answer is thus:

There has been some, relatively minor slippage so far; its early enough on that this may well be recovered, and is not, at this point, a definitive indication that the project will run behind on schedule overall.

There are ongoing risks to the project, many of which simply haven't been encountered yet, as they will be discovered when various 'digs' have started and/or are further along.

Simply put, too early to draw definitive conclusions; but the current pacing would suggest a very marginal likelihood of some delay.

It may well be that greater slippage will occur, my source and I agree that the proposed schedule (of which I have some awareness) is aggressive. But the proponent has 'incentives' to hit key milestone dates in a timely way.

Lets return to the issue when we have more to go on.
 
nfitz said:
Anything's possible. But construction at the interchange stations on Queen are already awarded. The construction of the Eglinton Line stations wasn't awarded until the end of 2015 - only 5 years before it was supposed to open, and I believe that Eglinton and Eglinton West weren't part of that 2015 award and were added later. Does anyone remember when thy were added.
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Yes, there are some things that are being done better in this project. But then we can have new problems that we didn't encounter before.

generalcanada said:
how about because they went 40m below ground all the way through downtown?
sure the ground is so old down there there theres probably no records of some utilities, but nothing too complex.

heres another point, moss park, corktown and yonge are all being done (semi) cut and cover. especially yonge. that one could be very complex if they didnt shut down queen for 5 years.
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If some of things are being taken care of pre-emptively, that does not mean that nothing else could go wrong. What we can say is that they planned it better than Crosstown, so the chances of major delays are lower but not zero, not even anywhere close to zero. Even if there are no major issues, 1-3 years of delay in large projects like this is not uncommon.
 
Deadpool X said:
If some of things are being taken care of pre-emptively, that does not mean that nothing else could go wrong. What we can say is that they planned it better than Crosstown, so the chances of major delays are lower but not zero, not even anywhere close to zero. Even if there are no major issues, 1-3 years of delay in large projects like this is not uncommon.
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The question should not be, is the project already behind schedule.... the question should be, what process has been put in place so there is a rational, objective, transparent public reporting of progress -good or bad - as the project proceeds?

I am not worried about the project falling behind schedule (as others have noted, that often happens and is not in itself avoidable)

I am more worried about what may happen should there be setbacks - given the overriding urge to maintain a politically positive narrative. Scope creep, cutting of corners, acceptance of substandard product..... have we learned anything from Ottawa and Crosstown?

A project organization needs to be able to promptly identify, and have open and adult discussion about, obstacles and failures. I'm not confident that this project is starting out any better than the last one.

- Paul
 
DSC said:
If so it will be a HUGE wide ROW! The Spaces storage place was bult only ca 7 years ago, the one on south side of Eastern was expanded about 12 years ago if I remember right.
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I doubt they need the entire thing.

But it will be wider at Eastern - the platforms for East Harbour start just south of Eastern, so the tracks will have started to diverge by then for the island platforms.
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Found here: 356 Eastern Ave is the old self storage
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This report also illustrates the ROW could be up to 45m wide north of Riverside/Leslieville station, which would include spacing for one island platform (for OL). Comparably, if we consider a possible 1-2 additional island platforms at East Harbour (adjusting train centreline distances from 4m up to ~11m), then we’re looking at a nearby ROW up to possibly 60m, including noise barriers but excluding any potential embankments.

Keep in mind this is for early works; expropriated land will probably be used for construction staging and possibly utility relocation. I imagine the majority of land will be back on the market well before the OL is complete.

Edit: more recent (May 2023) slides from ML on progress in this corridor
 
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