CanadianNational
Senior Member
On University Avenue yesterday at Queen, looking east-ish.
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter JasonParis
- Start date
Aplus23
Active Member
So once finch and Eglinton are finished, will those workers be moving onto the Ontario line and SSE ??
The timeline for for the O-line is what, 2030 or 2031, under a decade doesn't seem feasible, even with the above ground components
The timeline for for the O-line is what, 2030 or 2031, under a decade doesn't seem feasible, even with the above ground components
GioBuild
New Member
2030 or 2031? lol.
I think we'll all be lucky if the entire Ontario Line finishes before 2036. I'd be shocked. More like 2040 in my estimation.
drum118
Superstar
Depends on what Union they belong to as well the contractor. Most contractors carry a core of personnel that they can rely on in the good and bad time that are members of unions and keep them on the books full time.
May not need as many workers as other projects to the point they have clean out the hiring hall. You have other projects on going and it becomes who needs workers sooner than later.
Not holding my breath for the 2030/31 dates. Been wrong in the past and could be wrong on these dates.
generalcanada
Senior Member
Dude i honeatly hate this take. It just shows a miaunderstanding of how theese transit projects are run.
Okay yea the eglinton has been "under construction" since 2011. Well thats because tunneling was done entirely before the station construction which itself didnt start till 2016.
Put it this way when do you consider the ontario line to have started construction? Theres an argument for having it started in 2020. So 11 years instead of the 8 since it started this year
Tldr: "early works" isnt a sign that a project will be years over budget
nfitz
Superstar
Unless they fail to award the final contracts, I don't see how they finish that late, as long as they don't start throwing nukes around, or Canada is invaded by the USA, or another superpower.
Edit - also the proposed extension north from Science Centre to Pearson airport I'd think would be long after 2040. 2060 maybe?
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T3G
Senior Member
There was a groundbreaking ceremony for the line on March 27, 2022. This argument only exists in the minds of Metrolinx propagandists.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The OL may not make 2030, but definitely not 2040.
Metrolinx has learned a lot of lessons from the Crosstown on what delayed the project and has made very deliberate design choices on the OL to avoid that.
The "critical path" project on the OL will likely be Queen station and Osgoode station - which are already underway as the first projects to start on that basis.
2030-2032 is the likely timeframe - with an understanding that the OL is the most complex public infrastructure project likely ever really undertaken in Canada, ever - setting a hard completion deadline this far out is premature.
Part of the "failure" of these complex, multi-billion dollar infrastructure projects is the political expectation to set a fixed budget and completion date early in a project timeline when such a timeline and dollar amount really cannot be reasonably set. These unrealistic expectations are really what have led to P3s in the first place - it lets politicians "set" a contract price and completion date early so they can't take the blame when it's "late".
Reality is that politicians should just be more realistic and understand that hugely complex infrastructure projects are challenging to scope down at project outset and that costs and completion dates are estimates at best and can vary wildly.
Metrolinx has learned a lot of lessons from the Crosstown on what delayed the project and has made very deliberate design choices on the OL to avoid that.
The "critical path" project on the OL will likely be Queen station and Osgoode station - which are already underway as the first projects to start on that basis.
2030-2032 is the likely timeframe - with an understanding that the OL is the most complex public infrastructure project likely ever really undertaken in Canada, ever - setting a hard completion deadline this far out is premature.
Part of the "failure" of these complex, multi-billion dollar infrastructure projects is the political expectation to set a fixed budget and completion date early in a project timeline when such a timeline and dollar amount really cannot be reasonably set. These unrealistic expectations are really what have led to P3s in the first place - it lets politicians "set" a contract price and completion date early so they can't take the blame when it's "late".
Reality is that politicians should just be more realistic and understand that hugely complex infrastructure projects are challenging to scope down at project outset and that costs and completion dates are estimates at best and can vary wildly.
blaixx
Active Member
T3G
Senior Member
That may well be the cause, for a project that is supposed to be finished in 8 years and that everyone is so confident will be done by then, there has been alarmingly little progress made to date. It could be done, but Metrolinx has not shown the slightest hint that their timelines should be taken seriously.
But it stands that saying that the project started in 2020 is also self serving propaganda. If I started building a condo on the site of a strip mall that was razed 10 years ago, it doesn't mean I've been working on the condo for 10 years.
Allandale25
Senior Member
generalcanada
Senior Member
Sunnyside
Active Member
Imo depends on how the supposed contract set to perpetually extend the line will work. The original segment might be quite complex, as @innsertnamehere said, but the planned extensions to the Ontario Line might be by comparison the easiest extensions to a subway ever built in Canada short of the REM. It’s a line that will only get easier to build and could very well just continue at a steady pace for a very long time. It’s too early to say of course, but we will certainly see this before 2060 if such a contract is to be believed.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
I know it's not a TTC project but the lawsuits from the yonge line extension that opened in 2017 are still in progress. They've torn up a bunch of street by pioneer village for probably water work, and the stations are cracking and leaking water.
The TTC sued the contractor for for bad work and the contractor sued the ttc, citing that the ttc sued the whoever planned the station! Just a giant shit show. Why would the Ontario line be different? Considering the design is more complicated.
T3G
Senior Member
Uh, no it wasn't.
The groundbreaking for the project was November 9, 2011.
There was a groundbreaking ceremony for the Keelesdale station at a later date in 2016, yes, but that's not the same as groundbreaking for the whole project.
As for my point? I thought I articulated it plenty clear enough, but one more time for the people in the back: claiming that we should take the 2031 deadline for the OL seriously because "actually", the line has been in the works since 2020 and not 2022 is deliberate misrepresentation at best, propaganda at worst. Of course, it was never realistic for work to start on the line that early, as it was just the year prior that Ford had presented his back of the napkin drawings to the world in the first place. Pre-preparation work like property acquisition and utility relocation no more constitutes the start of the construction then the start of building construction being when the building that was there before was demolished. It is not fair to count that as part of the process, because you can acquire property easily and then not make any further progress on a project for years. It is only reasonable to count from when the actual project started work.
Considering the only people that so far have defended Metrolinx's timeline are those who are inclined to defend Metrolinx and the province at the slightest provocation, you'll forgive me for not feeling assured. If a neutral third party with the inside scoop would like to explain why I'm wrong, I am of course willing to listen.