Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[generalcanada]

jeez everyone is so skeptical about this. how hard is it to understand that organizational learning is a thing?

"they bungled 1 project tear down everything and rebuild"

People say this is about the Ontario Line, I point to the GO Expansion which shows how much MX have learned, the way theyre running theese projects are so much better than theyve done in the past

Its almost like tearing down an organization after 1 failure prevents successes from happening. Just jook at the leafs. imagine if we listened to those yelling about trading matthews tavares and marner the first year we got knocked out....Now look at us. Its going to feel so good when we go far this year.

Give it time, Things happen slowly

 

[Amare]

jeez everyone is so skeptical about this. how hard is it to understand that organizational learning is a thing?

"they bungled 1 project tear down everything and rebuild"

People say this is about the Ontario Line, I point to the GO Expansion which shows how much MX have learned, the way theyre running theese projects are so much better than theyve done in the past

Its almost like tearing down an organization after 1 failure prevents successes from happening. Just jook at the leafs. imagine if we listened to those yelling about trading matthews tavares and marner the first year we got knocked out....Now look at us. Its going to feel so good when we go far this year.

Give it time, Things happen slowly

For the most part, organizational learning and Metrolinx are two mutually exclusive things.

They reinvent things to the point of having a similar outcome.

 

[generalcanada]

For the most part, organizational learning and Metrolinx are two mutually exclusive things.

They reinvent things to the point of having a similar outcome.

elaborate?

 

[Hairball]

elaborate?

Do you think Metrolinx, a government agency will figure out what not to do this time around after the disaster on Eglinton? How many years has Union station been under construction now? That said, these new lines were needed like 20 years ago, so at least something is happening.

 

[generalcanada]

Do you think Metrolinx, a government agency will figure out what not to do this time around after the disaster on Eglinton? How many years has Union station been under construction now? That said, these new lines were needed like 20 years ago, so at least something is happening.

Yes I do, thats litterally exactly what im saying, and speaking of Union Station, the USEP is coming along pretty well. Please source me something that says Metrolinx was in charge of the 2015 era Union station revitalization, they had to place the screens and presto boxes but only after everything was complete.

Id even say the Union Station revitalization is proof of my point that organizational learning is a thing and provided time, wouldnt happen again, The TYSSE also is another example, you cant just throw everything away after 1 failure. You need time to learn

 

[MrGoose]

Do you think Metrolinx, a government agency will figure out what not to do this time around after the disaster on Eglinton? How many years has Union station been under construction now? That said, these new lines were needed like 20 years ago, so at least something is happening.

Metrolinx is learning. Thats why we're not building the new interchange stations directly under the existing Line 1 and Line 2 Stations. People hate the long interchanges but it reduces construction risk and cost.

Its why the Ontario Line is having parts built elevated. So that various bugs in elevated metro construction can be worked out before trying to build the Ontario Line North and any future suburban metro lines. It allows for future cost reductions.

 

[smallspy]

jeez everyone is so skeptical about this. how hard is it to understand that organizational learning is a thing?

"they bungled 1 project tear down everything and rebuild"

People say this is about the Ontario Line, I point to the GO Expansion which shows how much MX have learned, the way theyre running theese projects are so much better than theyve done in the past

Its almost like tearing down an organization after 1 failure prevents successes from happening. Just jook at the leafs. imagine if we listened to those yelling about trading matthews tavares and marner the first year we got knocked out....Now look at us. Its going to feel so good when we go far this year.

Give it time, Things happen slowly

The problem is that it isn't just one project.

In fact, it seems that more often than not Metrolinx manages to bungle any project they touch.

The Crosstown happens to be just the most glaring example, but it is by no means the only one.

Dan

 

[generalcanada]

The problem is that it isn't just one project.

In fact, it seems that more often than not Metrolinx manages to bungle any project they touch.

The Crosstown happens to be just the most glaring example, but it is by no means the only one.

Dan

EXAMPLES! you cant just say "oh there are others" specify, back up your position

Give an example of a project metrolinx owned and managed from end to end other than the crosstown.

 

[smallspy]

EXAMPLES! you cant just say "oh there are others" specify, back up your position

Give an example of a project metrolinx owned and managed from end to end other than the crosstown.

- The Crosstown
- USRC resignalling
- Exhibition Station
- LRV purchases
- Stouffville Line rebuilding

These are just the ones I can come up with at a moment's notice. If you want, I'll spend some time and come up with some more.

Dan

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

EXAMPLES! you cant just say "oh there are others" specify, back up your position

Give an example of a project metrolinx owned and managed from end to end other than the crosstown.

UPX
Barrie Line - Still haven't done the siding in simcoe. Why is Caledonia taking so long
Lakeshore West and East - Hamilton opened 6 years late! Bowmanville extension is so late
Kitchener - Just give CN what they want already?

All fell behind. Some are still not done.

Stouffville - Highland Creek is still not done.

2024 is coming soon. Hourly off-peak service to Mount Pleasant, Barrie and Mt Joy.

Grimsby, Woodbine, and Mulock are all in development hell. They could have told Ford the truth about TOD.


edit: @smallspy beat me to it.

 

[T3G]

I am willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, provided they have shown regret for their past mistakes and a real attempt at doing better in the future.

I don't at all get the impression that this is true of Metrolinx. They pushed the Osgoode Hall changes unilaterally through and it's been all of 5 days since we found out any specific information about the hold up on the Crosstown. It is far too soon to start championing this as being the dawn of glasnost at Metrolinx.

 

[Amare]

Metrolinx is learning. Thats why we're not building the new interchange stations directly under the existing Line 1 and Line 2 Stations. People hate the long interchanges but it reduces construction risk and cost.

Its why the Ontario Line is having parts built elevated. So that various bugs in elevated metro construction can be worked out before trying to build the Ontario Line North and any future suburban metro lines. It allows for future cost reductions.

They're not building directly under existing Line 1 and 2 stations because in many of those cases it would be virtually impossible to do without shutting down those stations for a fairly significant period of time. This is especially the case at Queen Station where the constraints are numerous. But yes one of the benefits per se is reducing construction risks and complexities.

The elevated portion comes to play in an effort to save money, and cross rivers/valleys which would be very complicated to tunnel through.

elaborate?

@smallspy beat me to it, he provided some pretty glaring examples. Here are some others for you that are currently on the go and still in development in one way or another:

-Jane/Finch Community Centre
-West Harbour GO
-Confederation GO
-Caledonia GO
-Presto

And just for fun; here's one where they will spend at least $100 million more than necessary (of course Metrolinx isnt being forthcoming about the cost because it will sound completely asinine) to tunnel a subway just to appease 20 homeowners and 8 other property owners. Yes you heard that right:

Route of Yonge Street subway extension moved after residents complain

The Yonge North Subway Extension will pass under fewer homes in Thornhill, with deeper tunnels to lessen its impact, but locals say it’s not enough.

www.stcatharinesstandard.ca

 

[generalcanada]

- The Crosstown
- USRC resignalling
- Exhibition Station
- LRV purchases
- Stouffville Line rebuilding

These are just the ones I can come up with at a moment's notice. If you want, I'll spend some time and come up with some more.

Dan

UPX
Barrie Line
Lakeshore West and East
Kitchener

All fell behind. Some are still not done.

Stouffville - Highland Creek is still not done.

2024 is coming soon. Hourly off-peak service to Mount Pleasant, Barrie and Mt Joy.

Grimsby, Woodbine, and Mulock are all in development hell.

usrc had problems? what happened?
exhibition? what about that? there was a redevelopment but put on hold when the Ontario Line was announced for obvious reasons
LRVs? you mean the crosstown lrvs? or the toronto flexities that metrolinx wasnt a part of?
UPX? pretty sure that was completed on time?

Stouville corridor, while delayed saying previously completed by December 2020 and substantail completion in 2022 is a year delayed especially during covid.
The stations, with the corridors themselves have been thorugh so many changes since 2018.
Barrie line, lakeshore, kitchener, All have been changed multiple times since 2018, not suprised theyre so delayed

 

[generalcanada]

They're not building directly under existing Line 1 and 2 stations because is many of the case it would be virtually impossible to do without shutting down those stations for a fairly significant period of time. This is especially the case at Queen Station where the constraints are numerous. But yes one of the benefits per se is reducing construction risks and complexities.

The elevated portion comes to play in an effort to save money, and cross rivers/valleys which would be very complicated to tunnel through.


@smallspy beat me to it, he provided some pretty glaring examples. Here are some others for you:

-Jane/Finch Community Centre
-West Harbour GO
-Confederation GO
-Caledonia GO

And just for fun; here's one where they will spend at least $100 million more than necessary (of course Metrolinx isnt being forthcoming about the cost because it will sound completely asinine) to tunnel a subway just to appease 20 homeowners and 8 other property owners. Yes you heard that right:

Route of Yonge Street subway extension moved after residents complain

The Yonge North Subway Extension will pass under fewer homes in Thornhill, with deeper tunnels to lessen its impact, but locals say it’s not enough.

www.stcatharinesstandard.ca

yea they screwed up with jane finch community center, not a good look. Bad PR issue
So you know how Go Expansion/RER has been changed multiple times? im not surpised they have differing priorities and timelines.

Just because something wasnt built yet or has a very low priority doesnt mean its been badly managed.

do you agree with my opinions? they had to spend 100 million to shut up 20 rich homeowners because they wouldnt stop yelling about consultations
they shouldnt be so vulnerable to annoying nimbys. Rich ones at that

 

[generalcanada]

I am willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, provided they have shown regret for their past mistakes and a real attempt at doing better in the future.

I don't at all get the impression that this is true of Metrolinx. They pushed the Osgoode Hall changes unilaterally through and it's been all of 5 days since we found out any specific information about the hold up on the Crosstown. It is far too soon to start championing this as being the dawn of glasnost at Metrolinx.

YESS...the osgoode hall.

discussions always go in a circle here lol.

osgoode hall imo is not a mistake, though the crosstown information release has been blocked by ford for political reasons, i dont see how its an issue on metrolinx's part for management of a project.

Lets say hypothetically that metrolinx released that walkthrough video of the crosstown back in september, would that do anything? what does it change

A lack of information doesnt mean didly squat.