Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[EastYorkTTCFan]

And the fun will only continue when the TTC operates the Finch West LRT. Word is, they plan on implementing many of the same idiotic streetcar rules and procedures to the LRT.

what's your source on this or are you basing his off of the speculation from people who are just being silly for the heck of it and have no clue how this line is actually planed to operate?

 

[T3G]

I mean, it's obvious, isn't it? If the TTC is the one who is going to be operating the line, and the TTC operates their streetcars like that, and the infrastructure on the surface sections of the LRT effectively match the infrastructure of the streetcars... why would it be different?

Remember, we can't have rapid surface based transit, that might cause an incident. It's important that we feel safe.

Moreover, it's been unofficially confirmed by a TTC operator on the Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board.

Eglinton Crosstown line

How much weight you choose to ascribe to this is up to you, but absent of any internal information to the contrary there's not any ground on which to cast aspersions on it.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I mean, it's obvious, isn't it? If the TTC is the one who is going to be operating the line, and the TTC operates their streetcars like that, and the infrastructure on the surface sections of the LRT effectively match the infrastructure of the streetcars... why would it be different

Because unlike with the streetcar network all of the switches are controlled by transit control just like the subway is. The plan is to run it like a subway line contrary to what people on here seem to think based on absolutely nothing at all.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Moreover, it's been unofficially confirmed by a TTC operator on the Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board.

Eglinton Crosstown line
How much weight you choose to ascribe to this is up to you, but absent of any internal information to the contrary there's not any ground on which to cast aspersions on it.

I don't really care what they say they probably don't have any idea what they are talking about it's the classic case of a front line worker knowing nothing so they make stuff up to sound like they do. They also shouldn't be posting on something like that if they don't have all of the information.

 

[Amare]

what's your source on this or are you basing his off of the speculation from people who are just being silly for the heck of it and have no clue how this line is actually planed to operate?

I'm basing it off people who have reviewed the Standard Operating Procedures for the Crosstown line. Which will eventually translate into similar SOPs for the Finch line.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I'm basing it off people who have reviewed the Standard Operating Procedures for the Crosstown line. Which will eventually translate into similar SOPs for the Finch line.

I highly doubt that and if anyone is giving out information like that to the public they should be fired for that.

Also why are you posting about this on the Ontario line section and not on the crosstown or Finch west ones. That says to me that it's not really true and you are just making it up for some reason.

 

[turbanplanner]

Transit isn't, and never has been, purely about the rolling stock.

In all ways except for accessibility and air-conditioning, conditions on the streetcar network have markedly gone down hill since the days of the CLRVs (itself a time when conditions were starting to pall - Spadina has been an unbearably slow line for as long as I can remember). Some of this is an unavoidable by-product of having low floor cars (the ride quality on the Flexity is horrifically bad - the vintage cars up at Halton County ride better). Some of this is a consequence of TTC management, such as wider headways, or ridiculous safety rules mandating cars slow down when entering an intersection, stopping to check that the switches are set correctly instead of having signals that will do that for you, etc. These days, riding the streetcar network is a completely miserable experience, old rolling stock or no. We have gone from a mildly okay system that worked only for the able-bodied, to a completely unusable system for all.

I'm not disagreeing but what's gone down?

I see with the length they are more likely to catch a red light, and it also means less frequency. Another gripe I have is the doors take FOREVER to close so you're dwelling longer too.
Short turns seem way down but holy if you're riding to the end of the line not much has changed since only 1/4 or 1/5 cars go to the end.

 

[Amare]

I highly doubt that and if anyone is giving out information like that to the public they should be fired for that.

Also why are you posting about this on the Ontario line section and not on the crosstown or Finch west ones. That says to me that it's not really true and you are just making it up for some reason.

Yes, because i have the time to come on here and explicitly make things up.

It doesnt really matter to me if you believe it or not, you'll see it in play in just a couple of months. Thank me later.

 

[T3G]

I'm not disagreeing but what's gone down?

I see with the length they are more likely to catch a red light, and it also means less frequency. Another gripe I have is the doors take FOREVER to close so you're dwelling longer too.
Short turns seem way down but holy if you're riding to the end of the line not much has changed since only 1/4 or 1/5 cars go to the end.

The rules (that I know of) are:

-you have to stop and visually inspect a switch to ensure it is set in your correct direction of travel before proceeding. I believe it is 1 m before the switch you have to stop. This makes for a miserably jerky ride, especially if there is a stop closer to 1 m before the switch, which means you have to speed up and stop again in a short amount of time - or if there's a high frequency of switches along the line, such as on The Queensway at Roncesvalles carhouse. Other countries deal with this by having a signal mounted on the nearest overhead pole that shows you the direction of travel the switch is intended for - cities like Prague even installed high speed, subway style switches on some suburban lines! Can you imagine making use of that here? And the rule, as well, is that the streetcar is not permitted to traverse the switch any faster than 10 km/h, which is a pathetically slow speed I have not seen in any other city with streetcars.

-To "reduce" the risk of collision, you have to slow down to 25 km/h (if you can even get up to that speed... good luck to you) entering an intersection. Except for on The Queensway, where you have to slow down to 10 km/h.

-Two cars cannot negotiate special work (i.e. switches) at the same time, one has to stop and yield to the other (I believe the down trip gets priority over the up trip. What these term means on east-west routes is not clear). Oh, and suddenly you've missed your light. And woe betide you if you encounter another trip in the opposite direction when you finally get your light, I'm not sure if there's some kind of system to ensure the up trip doesn't miss the same light twice). Or if there's a car in front of you waiting to turn left.

You are correct in noticing that the doors take forever to close, that is also a problem. Right before covid they tweaked the timing of the door closing to be even slower. All of these factors come together to make a trip that is horrifically slow. I'm not sure specifically when all of these rules were instituted, it's possible some of these might even pre-date Rick Leary, I only started riding streetcars again in larger amounts in 2018 so I'm not sure.

it's the classic case of a front line worker knowing nothing so they make stuff up to sound like they do

Are you one of those people who goes to the grocery store and claims they know better than the people that work there, too?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Must not forget that Doug Ford is anti-union. He's looking for the lowest paid workers for just about everything under the provincial government control. Getting some private company to operate transit will only last a few years, until those workers get organized. Then the government will look for some other company (same shareholders and executives) but under a different name. Then it starts all over again.

Five More Unions That Endorsed Doug Ford Are Now Condemning Ford’s Attack On Workers’ Rights ​

See link.

Five more construction unions that endorsed Doug Ford in 2022 are now “deeply concerned about the potential removal of collective bargaining rights” through Ford’s Bill 28.
Bill 28 would use the notwithstanding clause to impose a contract on 55,000 CUPE education support workers and prevent them from striking.

In total, all seven unions that endorsed Doug Ford during last spring’s provincial election have now condemned Ford’s use of the notwithstanding clause to override workers’ rights.

“We are deeply concerned about the potential removal of collective bargaining rights impacting educational workers,” the Provincial Building and Construction Trades Council of Ontario statement reads.

“Collective bargaining is a fundamental right of working people that has been repeatedly upheld by the Supreme Court of Canada and is enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.”

The Provincial Building and Construction Trades Council of Ontario, who released the statement earlier today, represents the following unions that endorsed Ford:

• The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Construction Council of Ontario (IBEW CCO);
• International Union of Painters and Allied Trades (IUPAT);
• The United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipefitting Industry (UA);
• The Ontario Pipe Trades Council; and
• The International Brotherhood of Boilermakers.

 

[smallspy]

I'm basing it off people who have reviewed the Standard Operating Procedures for the Crosstown line. Which will eventually translate into similar SOPs for the Finch line.

If you're talking about who I think you're talking about.....

I wouldn't put too much stock into his "projections" for how the line will run.

Dan

 

[turbanplanner]

Must not forget that Doug Ford is anti-union. He's looking for the lowest paid workers for just about everything under the provincial government control. Getting some private company to operate transit will only last a few years, until those workers get organized. Then the government will look for some other company (same shareholders and executives) but under a different name. Then it starts all over again.

Five More Unions That Endorsed Doug Ford Are Now Condemning Ford’s Attack On Workers’ Rights ​

See link.

As a former union member I always found it scary that my union would endorse people

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Are you one of those people who goes to the grocery store and claims they know better than the people that work there, too?

No because that's something completely different. I'm not saying that I know better than others I'm just saying that people who say they do don't always know what they are talking about.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The rules (that I know of) are:

-you have to stop and visually inspect a switch to ensure it is set in your correct direction of travel before proceeding. I believe it is 1 m before the switch you have to stop. This makes for a miserably jerky ride, especially if there is a stop closer to 1 m before the switch, which means you have to speed up and stop again in a short amount of time - or if there's a high frequency of switches along the line, such as on The Queensway at Roncesvalles carhouse. Other countries deal with this by having a signal mounted on the nearest overhead pole that shows you the direction of travel the switch is intended for - cities like Prague even installed high speed, subway style switches on some suburban lines! Can you imagine making use of that here? And the rule, as well, is that the streetcar is not permitted to traverse the switch any faster than 10 km/h, which is a pathetically slow speed I have not seen in any other city with streetcars.

-To "reduce" the risk of collision, you have to slow down to 25 km/h (if you can even get up to that speed... good luck to you) entering an intersection. Except for on The Queensway, where you have to slow down to 10 km/h.

-Two cars cannot negotiate special work (i.e. switches) at the same time, one has to stop and yield to the other (I believe the down trip gets priority over the up trip. What these term means on east-west routes is not clear). Oh, and suddenly you've missed your light. And woe betide you if you encounter another trip in the opposite direction when you finally get your light, I'm not sure if there's some kind of system to ensure the up trip doesn't miss the same light twice). Or if there's a car in front of you waiting to turn lef

Why are you quoting rules for the streetcar network and making an assumption that they will be applied to the LRT lines, that makes no sense at all.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Why are you quoting rules for the streetcar network and making an assumption that they will be applied to the LRT lines, that makes no sense at all.

Unless changed by the time that Line 5 opens, there will be no "real" transit signal priority at the intersections in its east end. Just like the streetcars, no TSP because it would upset the single-occupant motorists making left turns ahead of the 300+ onboard the light rail vehicles.