Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Northern Light said:
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The level you currently use at Queen St. Station, to get from the SB to the NB side and vice versa, is, in essence the platform level for the Queen Street subway (likely streetcar subway) that was constructed at the same time as the original station, as it was thought at the time that an E-W line was likely to run under Queen.
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This image below is from BlogTo:

View attachment 355130
Credit: BlogTo
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Just thought I would share that the above is likely a part of the story.
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So chances are that what I marked as "Transfer Level" is a renovation of the lost Queen Subway station rough-out to expand beyond the current underpass corridor
(maybe installing raised floors in the areas originally designated for streetcar tracks) and maybe, as mentioned above, the big white void area is intended to retain support for that old infrastructure.
 
officedweller said:
So chances are that what I marked as "Transfer Level" is a renovation of the lost Queen Subway station rough-out to expand beyond the current underpass corridor
(maybe installing raised floors in the areas originally designated for streetcar tracks) and maybe, as mentioned above, the big white void area is intended to retain support for that old infrastructure.
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That seems like a very reasonable supposition.

I would be surprised if they left the 'ghost tunnel' empty as it would add much needed capacity in the underground area.

That said, unifying the 2 spaces would require moving the fare-paid area, and it currently encloses only one of the 2 corridors.
 
DirectionNorth said:
Didn't Sheppard ridership grow about 40% over 15 years?
https://outline.com/mYuT4h
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If you look at what TTC lists, http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Transit_Planning/index.jsp

The daily ridership just fluctuates between 47k to 50k from 2009 to 2018. It once reached 50k in 2012 and it went back down again till 2018 meaning barely any growth over those 10 years. Meanwhile the system daily ridership rose from 1.495m to 1.66m (roughly 11%) from 2009 to 2018. This is actually really bad for Sheppard Line as the increased ridership is avoiding the line. Modest increase should have occurred in line with the system increase to be deem average performance meaning it should be at least 52k. Anything above 52k would be seen as the Line is attracting people to the TTC as its growth has increased above system average.
 
Reading the comments and suggestion on Steve Munro site pertaining to the latest round open house on the OL stations had me chuckling.

Been close to a decade that I have being call for a single bore than twin bore after visiting Europe in 2012 and we are now seeing one.

I can go back before then calling for GO RHC Line to use the DRL from the north around Lawrence and and exit/enter near the west corridor that would see the RHC train becoming one of the west lines. Have even call for using DD equipment on trains up to 10 cars long with platforms to match the length of the train in a 3/4 track tunnel. Even running 10 single level cars is a lot better than the Yonge Line today. Need to think 50-100 years out as the OL will become another Yonge line sooner by going to smaller cars and trains.

With the OL connecting to the east corridor now, you could run a train from the east end and connect to a west line along with an RHC train. As noted, it would take pressure off Union and provide another option for getting downtown.

Steve X said:
If you look at what TTC lists, http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Transit_Planning/index.jsp

The daily ridership just fluctuates between 47k to 50k from 2009 to 2018. It once reached 50k in 2012 and it went back down again till 2018 meaning barely any growth over those 10 years. Meanwhile the system daily ridership rose from 1.495m to 1.66m (roughly 11%) from 2009 to 2018. This is actually really bad for Sheppard Line as the increased ridership is avoiding the line. Modest increase should have occurred in line with the system increase to be deem average performance meaning it should be at least 52k. Anything above 52k would be seen as the Line is attracting people to the TTC as its growth has increased above system average.
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This is why I and others don't support a subway when the ridership is not there 10 years ago, today, let alone 20 years down the road. The Sheppard line needs to go from end to end just like the Finch Line must do sooner than later. Getting Finch to Yonge is the next phase as well to the airport. Have called for the Sheppard line to go to the airport before the Finch line.

Once the OL gets to Sheppard, the demand on the Sheppard line to Yonge will drop west of Don Mills. Those east of Don Mills will use the OL more than the Yonge Line.
 
dullturtle06 said:
So I saw the diagram of Queen station and it's really confusing.

Whats with the giant void of nothing in the middle?

On the west side do you need to leave the fare paid zone?

Didn't metrolinx say that they would use the old queen streetcar station to make the transfer easier, what changed?

The diagram metrolinx provided is trash, if anyone can help me understand it, it would be much appreciated.View attachment 355020
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Must be an "iceberg" house?

Hidden-world-how-an-icebe-010.jpg
From link. The ultimate "bat-cave"?
 
Steve X said:
If you look at what TTC lists, http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Transit_Planning/index.jsp

The daily ridership just fluctuates between 47k to 50k from 2009 to 2018. It once reached 50k in 2012 and it went back down again till 2018 meaning barely any growth over those 10 years. Meanwhile the system daily ridership rose from 1.495m to 1.66m (roughly 11%) from 2009 to 2018. This is actually really bad for Sheppard Line as the increased ridership is avoiding the line. Modest increase should have occurred in line with the system increase to be deem average performance meaning it should be at least 52k. Anything above 52k would be seen as the Line is attracting people to the TTC as its growth has increased above system average.
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My opinion is that the ridership has maxed out in its current form (length).
- most stations are within driving range of Finch; people may just decide to park at Finch
- there's the Richmond Hill line for downtown bound passengers
- the current transfer setup is tedious for crosstown travel

The line can only succeed if it's longer, and intercepts Scarborough bus routes.
 
11th said:
My opinion is that the ridership has maxed out in its current form (length).
- most stations are within driving range of Finch; people may just decide to park at Finch
- there's the Richmond Hill line for downtown bound passengers
- the current transfer setup is tedious for crosstown travel

The line can only succeed if it's longer, and intercepts Scarborough bus routes.
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Precisely. The Sheppard Line is poorly used because of how short it is where it becomes an inconvenience to riders, and frankly even if you consider its abysmal length its ridership is actually impressive when you compare it to some metros in the US.
 
11th said:
My opinion is that the ridership has maxed out in its current form (length).
- most stations are within driving range of Finch; people may just decide to park at Finch
- there's the Richmond Hill line for downtown bound passengers
- the current transfer setup is tedious for crosstown travel

The line can only succeed if it's longer, and intercepts Scarborough bus routes.
Click to expand...
Yes. Indeed it has. More condos won't help this doomed line.

Let's remember the real purpose (and goal) for this line was to connect the two growing city "cores" (North York Centre and Scarborough Centre) with a metropolitan class transit line! Hence the Sheppard Line was born (well in the 80s...). When this thing started building, Ontario enter a recession followed by an amalgamation which drove both of these so called "cores" to hell. Political wind changed directions to focus on the downtown and abandon the suburb cores. What was once a vision to connect two metropolis centre has now become a suburb extension to the network. Even if the line is extend to McCowan, it'll still be a white elephant as there's no real purpose for people to use it regularly with all the jobs downtown.
 
Steve X said:
Yes. Indeed it has. More condos won't help this doomed line.

Let's remember the real purpose (and goal) for this line was to connect the two growing city "cores" (North York Centre and Scarborough Centre) with a metropolitan class transit line! Hence the Sheppard Line was born (well in the 80s...). When this thing started building, Ontario enter a recession followed by an amalgamation which drove both of these so called "cores" to hell. Political wind changed directions to focus on the downtown and abandon the suburb cores. What was once a vision to connect two metropolis centre has now become a suburb extension to the network. Even if the line is extend to McCowan, it'll still be a white elephant as there's no real purpose for people to use it regularly with all the jobs downtown.
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50K is a lot for 6 km, and you know what the 401 is like. I'd think there is at least some demand along that corridor.
 
Steve X said:
Yes. Indeed it has. More condos won't help this doomed line.
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This line is not doomed.

Steve X said:
....it'll still be a white elephant as there's no real purpose for people to use it regularly with all the jobs downtown.
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Its not a 'white elephant' now, its under utilized, but far from empty.

That said, there remains a very large employment node at VP/Sheppard/Consumers; which will also have a large residential component now.

Aside from the on-going intensification of Sheppard along the existing route, there are plans for massive intensification at Agincourt Mall, and in/around Agincourt GO.

More will come when developers are confident the line will reach their site (or near to).

The line will also serve, with its westerly extension as the preferred route for many to York U (with transfer to TYSSE).

Likewise, it will be a key corridor en route to UTSC and Centennial's Progress campus from those further west.

I was not a proponent of Sheppard at the time it was built, in as much as I felt the Relief Line was clearly the greater priority.

That said, the doom-saying is far over-done.
 
I agree that Sheppard would be decently busy if built out as fully intended, not anything incredible, but decently busy.

If you ask me any extensions should see the line converted to more of a light-metro technology to allow the extensions to be elevated, but that's unlikely. Fully Toronto subway capacity isn't really required, a more typical light metro level of capacity would be fine.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I agree that Sheppard would be decently busy if built out as fully intended, not anything incredible, but decently busy.

If you ask me any extensions should see the line converted to more of a light-metro technology to allow the extensions to be elevated, but that's unlikely. Fully Toronto subway capacity isn't really required, a more typical light metro level of capacity would be fine.
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Was supposed to be ICTS aka extension west of the Scarborough RT tech from the get go. Real shame it wasn't done that way.
 
toronto647 said:
Feel bad for this group... I guess they don't realize nothing will happen and the MSF will be built in this area. Metrolinx has already negotiated expropriation agreements and demolition will commence in a few months.

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realistically where else would they have been able to build it? ill bet there will be complaints anywhere they go
it seems that people are crying for transit yet when they build it they either dont want to pay for it or they dont want it in their backyards.
pure hypocrites
 
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