Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[syn]

View attachment 316252

Here is a completely above ground extension of the OL on a ROW mostly owned by Metrolinx that would serve Richmond Hill far better (in addition with BRT down to Steeles). It would also be far cheaper than tunneling in single family housing Thornhill. The main reason the Yonge extension is being pushed is due to suburban voters and developer interest. It would be the single most expensive subway in Canadian history that goes through sleepy suburbs and ends at a destination that has does not have any currently existing development and includes a freaking highway dividing the site. While this doesn't seem to bother Metrolinx planners, it is more than justified to point out Metrolinx's hypocrisy.

If we're talking about taking pressure off Yonge this would be huge.

Also much more beneficial to those in the Eastern part of the city.

 

[Coolstar]

With Ford's re-election looking less likely, although, still fairly likely, any thoughts on what other parties may propose here? I doubt any party will want to go back to DRL for the sake of time and cancelling contracts. BUT... I can see at least the NDP devising something different for Leslieville/Riverside, perhaps also moving the MSF too.

As some on here have pointed out, the Liberals if they are elected will continue Ford's transit projects. However the MSF up in Thorncliffe, is within Kathleen Wynne's electoral district so I could see the Liberals moving the MSF somewhere else.

 

[afransen]

If we're talking about taking pressure off Yonge this would be huge.

Also much more beneficial to those in the Eastern part of the city.

Weren't we just saying there's no demand in the suburbs to justify grade separated rail?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

As some on here have pointed out, the Liberals if they are elected will continue Ford's transit projects. However the MSF up in Thorncliffe, is within Kathleen Wynne's electoral district so I could see the Liberals moving the MSF somewhere else.

I don't think it will mater who gets elected and if they move it some grrtpip will comapolain about it no mater hwe it si. It's like when someone buys ahouse near the subway now and complains about the noise after a while you don't notice it unless it isn't happening.

 

[syn]

Weren't we just saying there's no demand in the suburbs to justify grade separated rail?

There isn't enough demand in the suburbs to justify an underground subway extension.

That doesn't mean it makes sense to add those additional riders to the Yonge Line.

If the government really wants to extend the TTC north, then the plan @jelbana came up with makes more sense on just about every level.

 

[toronto647]

If the Liberals or NDP were to win Queens Park in 2022, and the OL construction wouldn't be totally signed off by that time .. yes, they would probably go for tweaks that keep the locals happier, but retain the main OL design elements to avoid delaying it much.

For what its worth .. someone mentioned on this forum that at the Liberal Candidates voting conference (or whatever its called) All party leaders including De Luca agreed to keep all the Ford transit expansion projects if they were elected as Premier.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

View attachment 316252

Here is a completely above ground extension of the OL on a ROW mostly owned by Metrolinx that would serve Richmond Hill far better (in addition with BRT down to Steeles). It would also be far cheaper than tunneling in single family housing Thornhill. The main reason the Yonge extension is being pushed is due to suburban voters and developer interest. It would be the single most expensive subway in Canadian history and would both go through sleepy suburbs and end at a site that currently has no existing development except for a freaking highway dividing it. While this doesn't seem to bother Metrolinx planners, it is more than justified to point out Metrolinx's hypocrisy.

It's a more affordable alignment, but I'd happily spend the extra cash to elevate over Don Mills, where greater intensification and connectivity opportunities exist

 

[generalcanada]

Transcript: Ontario Liberal Leadership Debate | Feb 19, 2020 | TVO.org

www.tvo.org

Control +F for "transit"
This was about a month before the election
There was a decently long discussion here. started as a discussion around the ontario line ended as a discussion of Del Duca's proposal for steep off-peak fare discounts

Some candidates said outright they arent touching the ontario line but nothing specific from del duca about the ontario line

ill check the other leadership debates for mentions about the ontario line, which defintely was mentioned elsewhere

 

[ARG1]

View attachment 316252

Here is a completely above ground extension of the OL on a ROW mostly owned by Metrolinx that would serve Richmond Hill far better (in addition with BRT down to Steeles). It would also be far cheaper than tunneling in single family housing Thornhill. The main reason the Yonge extension is being pushed is due to suburban voters and developer interest. It would be the single most expensive subway in Canadian history and would both go through sleepy suburbs and end at a site that currently has no existing development except for a freaking highway dividing it. While this doesn't seem to bother Metrolinx planners, it is more than justified to point out Metrolinx's hypocrisy.

Its definitely far more affordable but its hard to say its explicitly better. While we can definitely develop the areas that the line passes through, the point of the Yonge North is first and most importantly to be a major piece of a regional network - to connect the Yonge Line to the 407 GO Bus services and the future 407 transitway as well as 3 BRT lines, while also giving fast and convenient access to North York Centre and Midtown Toronto to people commuting from York Region. In terms of long term planning and network design, the Yonge Line actually makes a lot of sense, and people are way too obsessed over the detail that its a "subway through suburbs". While your proposal is far cheaper, its hard to say its better. While it does make use of an existing rail corridor, that rail corridor feels like its purposefully avoiding every development node there is which seriously hampers its usability and it means that in order to get any use out of it, its a line that people have to transfer off of in order to get to places that people actually want to go. This is also likely going to lead to situations where despite connecting Richmond Hill to the Toronto Subway, people will still keep using the busses on Yonge to get their places simply for being faster. Another major goal of the Yonge North project is to relieve the insane amount of busses on Yonge Street (Yonge Street between Steeles and Finch is the busiest bus corridor in the city if not the region), and if this Ontario Line extension doesn't even get people off the busses, then you have a massive problem.

If we contrast this to the Ontario Line, the above ground alignment does not serve Leslieville and the local area any worse than the underground alignment. The rail corridor does not avoid any major development nodes, and due to being way closer to ground level, even if a station on the DRL was closer to a specific intersection, the walk to the intersection from the Ontario Line would at worst be a few minutes slower.

 

[superelevation]

I think it was a lot further ahead than you think it was. 15% design with a start date years ahead of the OL.



@TheTigerMaster nailed it.

20% is not only a huge difference, it's 20% based on dubious Metrolinx projections that are not realistic.

Seems like an incredibly foolish plan to implement on a line that needs maximum capacity.

The best plan is never the one we are building.

If the line takes 10000 ppdph off the Yonge Line, which it seems it will. Then I would consider that a success. We cannot fix a broken transit network with one project.

That rail corridor would be better reserved for more frequient GO service. Placing the OL in the same corridor takes space away from additional GO tracks.

Some medium-term cost savings for OL, but makes it harder to expand the GO service in the future.

We do not need an 6 track corridor here for GO and Via, we just don't . . . .

 

[syn]

The best plan is never the one we are building.

If the line takes 10000 ppdph off the Yonge Line, which it seems it will. Then I would consider that a success. We cannot fix a broken transit network with one project.

No, but that doesn't excuse foolish decisions either. We have the opportunity to make a very wise decision and maximize the capacity here. Doing otherwise just makes it that much harder to improve the network.

 

[Rainforest]

The best plan is never the one we are building.

If the line takes 10000 ppdph off the Yonge Line, which it seems it will. Then I would consider that a success. We cannot fix a broken transit network with one project.

It will be a success compared to doing nothing at all. But it won't be best value for money. We are losing ~ 30% of capacity for maybe ~ 15% cost saving.

We do not need an 6 track corridor here for GO and Via, we just don't . . . .

Just 4 tracks can possibly work, but that requires more advanced interchanges at both Scarborough Junction and the west end of this corridor (either approaching Union, or wherever the lines split again further west). To operate perfectly with 4 tracks, you need to dedicate one pair for express and the other pair for local. For example, both LSE and Stouffville local eastbound use the southmost track, while LSE express, Stouffville express, and VIA eastbound use the next track. But then they need to regroup at Scarborough Junction and not cause a conflict with the westbound services, that requires grade separation.

So, the cost of adding OL to the corridor is more infrastructure elsewhere, and it looks like Metrolinx is not on board with that, they don't want to grade separate Scarborough Junction.

 

[Northern Light]

New article in Today's Star on pushback from locals vis a vis the proposed Corktown Station/First Parliament site.

Residents near historic downtown site want councillors to push back on Metrolinx plans to take over land for Ontario Line

Community members near the planned Corktown subway station say they’ve been left ‘in the dark’ on details of the provincial agency’s plan to acquire the First Parliament land by Aug. 1.

www.thestar.com

Not a lot new in there..........but this caught my eye:

Metrolinx has valued the property at $156 million.

If Mx goes ahead and expropriates, I assume they will have to pay the City what they appraised the site at............

 

[Allandale25]

^ Is Metrolinx saying they will start expropriation by August 1st, or that they will start it even before then so that they officially own the site by August 1st?

 

[Coolstar]

New article in Today's Star on pushback from locals vis a vis the proposed Corktown Station/First Parliament site.

Residents near historic downtown site want councillors to push back on Metrolinx plans to take over land for Ontario Line

Community members near the planned Corktown subway station say they’ve been left ‘in the dark’ on details of the provincial agency’s plan to acquire the First Parliament land by Aug. 1.

www.thestar.com

Not a lot new in there..........but this caught my eye:

Metrolinx has valued the property at $156 million.

If Mx goes ahead and expropriates, I assume they will have to pay the City what they appraised the site at............

And speaking of which, here a more detailed look at the Corktown TOD site.

Link: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sites/default/files/first_parliament_townhall-_april_15_final.pdf


Edit: Tons of stuff in this pdf as well. https://www.infrastructureontario.c.../Corktown-TOC-Draft Renderings-April-2021.pdf