Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[MrGoose]

I agree with you. I'm not convinced some members of the community are being reasonable either.

Perhaps they're asking for the world and hoping for a compromise somewhere in the middle (or far closer to what Metrolinx wants to do). One could argue neither side is handling this well. I put the onus on the government as it's their responsibility to set expectations and work with the community to come to a satisfactory outcome, especially when there are projects that are being held to a different standard.

If they'd guaranteed significant landscaping/community improvements, etc. perhaps the community would've been on board right away.

How would metrolinx guarantee this? They’ve already stated that they’re going to put up noise walls and do landscaping around the noise walls but the NIMBYs rejected it.

Generally speaking, in my experience these kinds of situations when the side who wants to make all the changes approaches it with some level of empathy and cooperation the community is a lot more receptive.

Unfortunately Metrolinx has had a troubling track record recently when it comes to building community relationships.

The Leslieville community is throwing a tantrum because they didn’t get exactly what they wanted, even though their stated concern about the park and the community center were addressed.

They were operating in bad faith the whole time. When metrolinx addressed the Bailey of their concerns, “Jimmie Simpson Park” the switched to the Motte to continue objecting, “Use our crowdsourced underground alignment”

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The Leslieville community is throwing a tantrum because they didn’t get exactly what they wanted, even though their stated concern about the park and the community center were addressed.

They were operating in bad faith the whole time. When metrolinx addressed the Bailey of their concerns, “Jimmie Simpson Park” the switched to the Motte to continue objecting, “Use our crowdsourced underground alignment”

I really can't pick sides here. The Lesliville NIMBYs are operating in bad faith here, and I'm not receptive to their concerns at all. However Metrolinx is also operating in bad faith here, and they've proven time and time again that they're not to be trusted. There are no "good guys" here.

 

[syn]

How would metrolinx guarantee this? They’ve already stated that they’re going to put up noise walls and do landscaping around the noise walls but the NIMBYs rejected it.

How would they guarantee it? Perhaps the same way they're guaranteeing to bury the EWLRT.

Ask the community what's necessary. Present a plan that they'll actually execute. They haven't done that with regards to community improvements and landscaping. They stated it would be explored.

The Leslieville community is throwing a tantrum because they didn’t get exactly what they wanted, even though their stated concern about the park and the community center were addressed.

They were operating in bad faith the whole time. When metrolinx addressed the Bailey of their concerns, “Jimmie Simpson Park” the switched to the Motte to continue objecting, “Use our crowdsourced underground alignment”

Kind of like people throwing a tantrum about having to make a transfer? Or people 'deserving' underground transit?

The difference here is that other communities are getting whatever they want, no matter what the cost.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I didn't notice it posted.....apologies if I missed it; but Steve Munro put a new post yesterday on the subject of the Community Meeting/ Q&A that was recently held for this project.

Metrolinx Ducks and Weaves in Riverside

Metrolinx held one of their online consultations on April 22. This time the subject of the Ontario Line between the Don River and Gerrard Street. Normally, I would not review meetings like this in …

stevemunro.ca

To say he was unimpressed is an understatement.

Understanding that Steve Murno has a certain angle, he isn't wrong raising the question about details:

Metrolinx talked about its design priorities and the benefits of noise and retaining walls, but entirely ducked questions about property requirements. A central problem with their presentation is that generic design drawings do not show the specific effects of the expanded corridor step by step along its length.

Metrolinx should rightly come clean on this, instead of showing generalized cross-sections, generic canned responses and hiding behind "process arguments" - especially when the alignment is tight.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Understanding that Steve Murno has a certain angle, he isn't wrong raising the question about details:



Metrolinx should rightly come clean on this, instead of showing generalized cross-sections, generic canned responses and hiding behind "process arguments" - especially when the alignment is tight.

AoD

I also want to hear them explicitly discuss how they proposed to accommodate VIA HFR.

Have they modeled the corridor with a dedicated 5th non-OL track? If so, how would that footprint be accommodated.

***

They must stop lying about the depth of the RL station. There are arguments to be made against going undeground or infavour of above; but just present the facts and don't tilt them.

Likewise they need to present the OL capacity honestly; if they feel the real number is sufficient, so be it. But let them own the numbers, honestly.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Toronto Rocket
Car length	23.190 m (76.08 ft)
Width	3.124 m (10 ft 3 in)
Height	3.137 m (10.29 ft)
Doors	8 sets (4 sets per side) per ca

Chicago

7000-series
Car length	48 feet (14.63 m)
Width	9 feet 4 inches (2.84 m)
Height	12 feet (3.66 m)
Doors	2 per car

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384969100070424583

Shockingly, it even has a railfan front window.

 

[EnviroTO]

Going underground with the subway line does allow greater flexibility in the rail corridor for what makes sense to be in the rail corridor (i.e the trains). It is a really tight fit for 5 tracks and the Ontario Line, and I think it is a little irresponsible in terms of planning for the future to not allow for one more track than you currently anticipate using in the next 10-15 years. You don't need to lay the track, but you leave it as an open possibility like most other bridges and underpasses that are built these days.

 

[Haydenpoon]

Going underground with the subway line does allow greater flexibility in the rail corridor for what makes sense to be in the rail corridor (i.e the trains). It is a really tight fit for 5 tracks and the Ontario Line, and I think it is a little irresponsible in terms of planning for the future to not allow for one more track than you currently anticipate using in the next 10-15 years. You don't need to lay the track, but you leave it as an open possibility like most other bridges and underpasses that are built these days.

View attachment 315076

Theoretically, if you timed the schedule of trains correctly, the Lakeshore East express and VIA can overtake the local train between Scarborough and Rouge Hill, which have space for 4 tracks. Running express trains does not require the entire corridor to have 4 tracks.

 

[superelevation]

Folks, we do not need an extra track for all 2 VIA TPH, we already will have like 30 TPH on a quad track . . . .

 

[superelevation]

I think it's quite pertinent to your question: "Does Ford actually care whether it was tunnelled or in the rail corridor?"

The answer seems obvious, given how he's interfered and added billions in spending to projects that benefit him politically.

If he didn't care then they simply could've went ahead with the much-further-along DRL plan.

The DRL plan was not as far along as everyone seems to suggest, the OL is past where the DRL was given they are doing full southern contract right now (not just tunnelling which can be accelerated as on SSE and EWLRT)

My guess would be the Liberals are going to campaign on burying the Leslieville segment.. if they won they could go ahead and procure the north half of the line first while the design/costing for the lower half is re-re-designed.

Why? The truth about NIMBYs is they are usually a small but vocal minority

It was more comprehensive in the the most important way - it had much greater capacity.

Less than 20% greater capacity makes *much* seem like an exaggeration

It's also why the original DRL plan had near universal acceptance.

The DRL plan cost almost as much as the OL despite barely going more than half as far. If you spend enough money of course you can make everyone happy . . . they never have to see the trains, but they can easily use them whenever. And the single family neighbourhood sits untouched . . .

Yes, it was in place...just as the Gardiner was in place.

They aren't expanding the rail corridor, most work is within the property lines, the issue is that people don't want trains passing through the neighborhood . . . . with a 100+ year old train line . . .

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Less than 20% greater capacity makes *much* seem like an exaggeration

I'm assuming this is based on MX's unrealistic expectation of running 90 sec headways at crush-level demand and passenger loading standards never yet observed in Toronto.

And regardless, 20% is a massive difference. Remove 20% of the Line 2 trains and see what happens.

 

[KhalilHeron]

I'm assuming this is based on MX's unrealistic expectation of running 90 sec headways at crush-level level demand and passenger loading standards never yet observed in Toronto.

90 second headways havent been observed in toronto cus no line has fully been built to easily handle it. Driverless automatic trains and platform screen doors will help get to those headways.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

90 second headways havent been observed in toronto cus no line has fully been built to easily handle it. Driverless automatic trains and platform screen doors will help get to those headways.

You'll be very hard pressed to find an automated metro system anywhere in the world running at 90 second headways with a high level of passenger crowding.

 

[EnviroTO]

Express tracks would include VIA, but would also include all the rush hour express trains, and an extra track isn't about the current mid-day plan... it is the plan for rush hour, it is the plan for beyond 15 years, it is the plan for a broken down train, it is the plan for HFR, etc.

 

[afransen]

90 second headways havent been observed in toronto cus no line has fully been built to easily handle it. Driverless automatic trains and platform screen doors will help get to those headways.

The laws of physics are different in Toronto.