Toronto, Ontario, and the Midwest

[Davidson]

Southwestern Ontario's landscape is very Midwestern, with little to distinguish it from much of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, for example.

There's a film coming out shortly called Lars and the Real Girl that is set in Wisconsin, but was filmed around Uxbridge, and no one will ever suspect.

We may not have Midwestern town squares here, but the landscape we've got.

42

I'd definitely agree with that. A few years back I took a bus from Toronto all the way down to Mexico City. (Yeah, all the way to Mexico City! Took two and a half days, and the return leg took even longer!) I travelled through Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, and etc., and, yes, the landscape is indistinguishable from Ontario's. Lots of farmland, really flat, and almost all of it looked the same to my eye.

Back to the bus journey. Sitting next me, I got to chatting with a friendly Costa Rican man, working as a farmhand in Ontario. Even more amazingly, he was travelling all the way by bus to Costa Rica to visit his family for the Christmas holidays. The return leg must have taken him a week.

 

[Mongo]

Of the three countries I passed, through I'd say Mexico had a more diverse and beautiful landscape than ours or that of our southern neighbour.

From what I've seen of the three countries, I have to agree with that. Mexico is full of very impressive scenery, from mountains (plenty of those) to deserts to jungles, not to mention spectacular sea coasts.

Not that Canada or the USA lack spectacular scenery, but in both cases, there's a lot more 'ho-hum' scenery mixed in with the good.

Bill

 

[khris]

If you go by the highest point, Ontario's highest point (Ishpatina Range) only tops the highest point in Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island. In this sense, we're the third flattest.

Highest points/elevations is not the same as the actual height of a mountain however.

You could have a mountain that is 700 ft, but it's elevation is 1400 ft.

 

[King of Kensington]

In the US "Midwest" includes both Cleveland and Sioux Falls. It seems the Midwest is more defined in terms of what it's not - i.e. not New England, not the South, not the West Coast, etc.

If anything I'd say Southern Ontario is just a sort of hybrid Northeast/Midwest area in the way Upstate New York is. Among US cities Chicago is the city that most reminds me of Toronto - except Chicago is obviously much bigger and Toronto has nothing like the South Side. The Old City of Toronto can maybe compared to the North Side of Chicago.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Sure we share similarities with the American Mid-west in southern Ontario. Flat agricultural plains are literally the bread and butter of Human civilization. In terms of geography the vast majority of this province is Canadian shield which has no real equivalent in the US. In some ways I think of Ontario as being much more similar in character to Scandinavia, especially Finland and Southern Sweden.

Getting past our mental image of Southern Ontario as flat and boring I think it's neet to step back and realize that the great Lakes basin is one of the most geographically unique regions in the world. We also live in Toronto Ontario, what kind of freaky place names are those to say a European? How strange is it for someone from say Saudi Arabia to look at a map of Ontario and see a land of 100,000 lakes?

 

[Hydrogen]

Trust me, when I said flat, I certainly didn't mean dull. Anyone who would entertain such a thought should spend a little time travelling around this province.

 

[Tewder]

True, and although large swaths of the province are flat there are lots of areas of gentle rolling landscapes once you get yourself away from the major highway corridors: the Haliburton Highlands, the entire Niagara escarpment area from the Niagara peninsula to the Bruce, the Halton Hills/Caledon area etc. Some of the little winding country biways are georgeous to travel, especially at this time of year!

 

[King of Kensington]

Some say the Midwest ends and Northeast begins around Rochester. West of there you have Buffalo which has a big German and Polish ethnic element and rust belt feel somewhat akin to Cleveland and Detroit. But then places like Oswego, NY for instance has a sort of colonial British feel to it.

Similarly southwestern Ontario has the classic "Midwestern" combination of Fordist auto industry and prosperous agriculture, while eastern Ontario is chock full of colonial British-style towns like Kingston and Brockville. The Golden Horseshoe is kind of the border zone. The old city of Toronto is filled with rowhouses (somewhat akin to Philadelphia, Brooklyn and Boston) and like most of the northeast the Irish were the largest "ethnic" group in the 19th century (in Midwestern cities like Chicago the Germans tended to be the largest group). Then again in terms of its age, geography and stature Toronto is most like Chicago (though without Chicago's "toughness" element).

...but in the end, Toronto is distinct and can't be compared.

 

[Hipster Duck]

The only Midwestern city of comparison might be the northside of Chicago, which is appropriately dense and has streets that kind of look like Bloor through Bloorcourt village, and stuff like that. Generally when I think about the Midwest I think of unbelievably grand Beaux Arts civic buildings and incredibly ornate art deco towers surrounded by a sea of the most mediocre clapboard frame housing. They remind me of those paintings of ancient Mesopotamian cities where the King's palace and ziggurat would lord over the mud brick dwellings of the commoners. I don't know anywhere in Canada that resembles this although Winnipeg may feel like this to some extent.

On the other hand, the 905 reminds me of something out of the Sunbelt. The lack of trees, very tight lots and endless cul de sacs could be something out of Southern California if it weren't for the brick and snow. In fact, Toronto is easily contrastable from nearby American cities in satellite photos due to the lack of foliage and density of our suburbs.

 

[King of Kensington]

I totally agree with that assessment - they don't call the GTA "Vienna surrounded by L.A." for nothing!

I think the North Side of Chicago (the Annex-y Hyde Park is geographically misplaced!) comparison is pretty apt as well for the old city though it does feel more "Northeastern" with the Victorian rowhouses and all.

Western New York also has that sort of hybrid Midwest/Northeast feel. People in Buffalo don't think of themselves as "Midwesterners" (nor should they) but someone from New York or Boston would probably think of it as such.

I've always found the term problematic having Michigan and North Dakota in the same region. Also "Midwestern" among liberal blue state types seems to mean conservative, parochial, etc. in contrast to Eastern Seaboard liberal cosmopolitanism. Naturally Torontonians would balk at being called "Midwestern" (mainly because they're Canadians and not Americans but also because they see themselves of the New York of Canada).

 

[Zephyr]

I have lived in both Toronto and Chicago (still do in the latter). And as I have stated before - I see, know of or have friends from Toronto that have relocated to Chicago. Those Torontonians see the similarity and constantly talk about it, sometimes broadening their discussion to compare Chicago suburbs to parts of Toronto.

As a sidebar, I have this feeling that the Southside of Chicago is seen as a monolith (meaning basically all the same), and that description is a far ways off from the reality. That is not to deny that the Southside does not compare to anything I am aware of in Toronto, except for perhaps the Kenwood / Hyde Park area where the University of Chicago resides.

 

[MisterF]

The only difference between small town Ontario and Toronto? Population and ambition.

This is from the other thread that the original quote was from so I'm replying to it here. I grew up in small town Ontario and it's very different from Toronto. But of course that depends on what exactly different means to you. Would you say that Chicago is no different from the small town midwest, save for population and ambition? Are London or Prague no different from small town England or the Czech Republic? (since your putdowns of Toronto usually hint that continental Europe is superior to Anglo North America, I'll assume you're as familiar with there as you are of here). If you answer yes then I could see your point. It could be argued that suburban Toronto has more in common with suburban Peterborough than downtown Toronto, and downtown Toronto has more in common with downtown Peterborough than Vaughan. Or that Canadian or American or Czech or English culture is fundamentally the same whether you're in a big city or small town. But even then there are major differences WRT culture, demographics, and lifestyle.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Toronto definitely has that Great Lakes/Midwest feel to it...

Everyone: Interesting observations by all! I feel myself that WNY has a more midwestern feel to it-especially compared to Downstate NY. Rochester is a break point of sorts-the end of the midwest and beginning of the Northeast-especially from Syracuse E.

Toronto and other Great Lakes cities in both the US and Canada have much in common physically as well as mentally in comparison to the Atlantic Coast/NE Corridor between Boston and Eastern Massachusetts and the Baltimore/Washington DC area. LI MIKE