Toronto One Bloor East | 257.24m | 76s | Great Gulf | Hariri Pontarini

I also had a good experience with them in X2, the building was largely completed prior to people moving in. 1 Bloor on the other hand was a raw construction zone, in my opinion, in 2016. It improved eventually but over a year of living through construction noise, smells, dust, poorly functioning elevators, with no amenities, and with construction needing daily access to your suite is not an experience I want to repeat. Moreover, the work is going to continue on the amenities, balconies, and re-construction of the front entrance for about another year at least.

I thought Great Gulf had a good reputation and I personally had a good experience with them in X2 but it appears that things have changed. I know of another project that is substantially delayed. What surprises me though that the builder can get away with that. 1 Bloor was registered in the Spring of last year. So in a way, the rules allow for this to go on? Then why the builder would not take advantage of it? (OK, their reputation is one factor but they still able to sell.)
 
Is it at all possible that one building shouldn't irrevocably tarnish the entire reputation of a developer?
 
ADRM said:
Is it at all possible that one building shouldn't irrevocably tarnish the entire reputation of a developer?
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Is it just one? It is not just the matter of some "mistakes". Ultimately this is the issue of responsibility. The problems with 1 Bloor show poor planing of several stages of construction and problem with allocation of resources. This cannot be building specific. If this is a new kind of project for them they should have planned accordingly and allocated more time and resources, requested second opinions etc. Instead, they spread themselves thin. They did not devote required attention to this project and tried to complete it in the last minutes. And surprise! Things started going not according to the plan. There is another project, Monde, was just delayed from 2016 to 2019. Why would that be? Could it be that they were busy with other projects? After all, the delays discussed for 1 Bloor are apparently allowed by rules and do not hurt the builder's profit. This is where responsibility comes in. I would like to see a proof that they have learned from their mistakes and dealt with them appropriately before I start "believing" in Great Gulf again and investing with them.

PS. For GG it is just one building but it is so much more for customers.
 
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Monde took a long time to sell, hence its delays.

At One Bloor East, they have by far the largest building they've ever built. I don't mean to excuse the issues by saying that, I only mean to point out the obvious and say that whatever planning they did undertake for it—and they would have prepared—various aspects still overtook them. Developers are cognizant that their reputations will take a battering when they mess up because of sites like ours, and none of them want to have us dissecting the problems…

but any company in any industry that takes a huge leap with their next project is bound to be surprised by things they did not foresee, no matter how much they planned. So yes, here's hoping that the issues become lessons learned for the future, and that they get outstanding problems corrected here soon.

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interchange42 said:
Monde took a long time to sell, hence its delays.

At One Bloor East, they have by far the largest building they've ever built. I don't mean to excuse the issues by saying that, I only mean to point out the obvious and say that whatever planning they did undertake for it—and they would have prepared—various aspects still overtook them. Developers are cognizant that their reputations will take a battering when they mess up because of sites like ours, and none of them want to have us dissecting the problems…

but any company in any industry that takes a huge leap with their next project is bound to be surprised by things they did not foresee, no matter how much they planned. So yes, here's hoping that the issues become lessons learned for the future and that they get outstanding problems corrected here soon.

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I'm okay with mistakes. But there was a lot of arrogance at that meeting. Some of the issues such as the lobby/elevator waiting area and no visitor parking were pre-planned.

I think this building has so many challenges in part because GG focused too much on retail vs. residential, the sheer size of the building, and a lack of preparation. More than anything, condos were built to be lived in, so many of the features in this building are opposed to doing that comfortably.
 
Like I said, I don't mean to excuse the issues/mistakes/problems. I'm just saying that things are bound to happen when a company goes way bigger with a new project.

People often get defensive at meetings when their mistakes get considered, especially if there may be legal ramifications, and that could come off as arrogance. If they do not or are not able to tackle those issues, their reputation will take a hit.

Sounds like the elevator lobby is the biggest and least solvable of the problems. Even if they had used less of the ground floor space for retail to increase the elevator lobby area, they'd then have to widen the elevator lobbies on every floor above, to the point where the low rise elevators end. They would have considered that wasted space on upper floors, but it's clearly a problem for everyone at ground level now.

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interchange42 said:
Like I said, I don't mean to excuse the issues/mistakes/problems. I'm just saying that things are bound to happen when a company goes way bigger with a new project.

People often get defensive at meetings when their mistakes get considered, especially if there may be legal ramifications, and that could come off as arrogance. If they do not or are not able to tackle those issues, their reputation will take a hit.

Sounds like the elevator lobby is the biggest and least solvable of the problems. Even if they had used less of the ground floor space for retail to increase the elevator lobby area, they'd then have to widen the elevator lobbies on every floor above, to the point where the low rise elevators end. They would have considered that wasted space on upper floors, but it's clearly a problem for everyone at ground level now.

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Very fair. But I would love to see a cultural shift (even beyond GG) of being forthcoming about mistakes and rectifying them without defensiveness or arrogance. Visitor parking was a big issue too, and they basically said that it was up to First Capital and that nothing could be done. They blamed the city by saying that they wanted less parking. I know this is true, the city is curbing cars, but the spaces are already there! they are just paid versus some being designated guest spots. That was a simple solution that they refused to engage.
 
Out of the 3 I have lived in, only 1 has had free visitor parking. the first one had a Green P on p1 that served as "visitor parking", the second was free, and my current building has paid visitor only parking (users have to be buzzed into the garage) that is about half the market rate in the area ($7/day when its about $15/day in the area).

Developers often sell off the visitor parking spaces to a commercial operator to make a bit of an extra buck. The zoning by-law does not require visitor parking to be free or available exclusively for "visitors" - which means it is entirely legal and quite common.
 
innsertnamehere said:
most buildings downtown don't have free visitor parking, not sure why that is an issue.
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I have not seen this in practice (or in the building approvals where the types and numbers of parking are stated). There are certainly buildings where there is (sometimes) insufficient free visitor parking and visitors may have to go to a paid area (if one exists).
 
Skeezix said:
(a) visitor parking is a rapidly disappearing amenity, for a whole host of good reasons; and
(b) were any of these five condos at the intersection of Yonge and Bloor?
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Still speculation and not facts. I am not saying you are wrong, but I am hard pressed to agree with you. One of my past units was close to Yonge and Bloor, X Condo (another GG build). Another one completed in 2014, with visitor parking. I also have one ready in 2021, with planned visitor parking.

Yes, the industry is changing, and I agree, we're going to see less visitor parking, but I don't believe MOST condos don't offer it.
 
TheSix said:
Still speculation and not facts. Not sure say I am in the right, but one of my past units was close to Yonge and Bloor, X Condo (another GG build). Another one completed in 2014, with visitor parking. I also have one ready in 2021, with planned visitor parking.
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There is a world of difference between Yonge and Bloor, and Jarvis Street.
 
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