3
3Dementia
Guest
^ not on a footprint this small mind you.
Toronto M5V Condominiums | 118.87m | 35s | Lifetime | Core Architects
P
papamanjr
Guest
with the sales centre now moving and shaking, it doesn't look like the developers are too worried about the refusal.
I walk by this site everyday, twice a day, and my feelings on it are mixed. the building does look very nice, but I'm not sure 34 stories is absolutely necessary here. I know the area around it is full of high rises, and I'm sure in time with everything that's going up around it, that it would be fine. I just think that this area is more suited to the mid rise, 10 - 20 story building. sort of an extension of what permeates king west, west of spadina.
just a thought.
I walk by this site everyday, twice a day, and my feelings on it are mixed. the building does look very nice, but I'm not sure 34 stories is absolutely necessary here. I know the area around it is full of high rises, and I'm sure in time with everything that's going up around it, that it would be fine. I just think that this area is more suited to the mid rise, 10 - 20 story building. sort of an extension of what permeates king west, west of spadina.
just a thought.
M
Mike in TO
Guest
OMB hearing starts in about a month.
G
gbelan
Guest
a block away is the 500 ft festival centre.freeds developments
are quite further.
are quite further.
C
Citywriter
Guest
True enough.
Freed's buildings are quite a bit further west, and on side streets too, but that's beside the point.
The point is this: Whatever the developers paid for the M5V land, you can bet they'd still be able to turn a profit by building at 20 storeys, or 15. Land is a fairly small proportion of developers' costs, even now. They're just accustomed, in the current market, to making very big piles of money.
And the site is only worth as much as developers think it's worth. Which is exactly why M5V is a bad precedent; like any highrise, it'll only boost the value of nearby land to developers. Who will then expect to turn cash in by redeveloping at high density. (And actually, the nearby area is not full of highrises. It's very mixed, so there's lots of damage to be done.)
Building midrise is not impossible. It's just less lucrative. And if Toronto's planning had balls, it would be the only option for sites like this -- and guess what? it would happen.
M
Mystery Man TO
Guest
glas is barely a block away, Soho Met is on the same block, Quad and Mode (not fine examples of architecture mind you) are on the other side of Spadina, etc. etc. There are plenty of examples of lower and presumably profitable buildings in the area.
C
Citywriter
Guest
Good point.
Those sites would be cheaper, but still.
Those sites would be cheaper, but still.
M
mark simpson
Guest
"not on a footprint this small mind you"
the footprints for 20 or 32 Stewart (169 John, Zed) are smaller
do they own the sales centre's property? A tall tower at M5V wouldn't be too distructive to the built form but imagine another one where the sales centre is
the footprints for 20 or 32 Stewart (169 John, Zed) are smaller
do they own the sales centre's property? A tall tower at M5V wouldn't be too distructive to the built form but imagine another one where the sales centre is
M
mazyar
Guest
Re: M5V - the developer's turn
i think its flattering that our project has received so much time on this blog.
i will fill in some of the questions and though inherently subjective, i am writing to give the perspective of the developer.
we acquired the site over a year ago and as observed we went through a lengthy process with the city. we started the process by initiating an extensive urban study, that was not required, but something we thought would help shed light on what would work on this site. we reviewed this with the city and explored heights and setbacks. we went throuth several various itterations with the city and reached a point where we had agreed on most matters, we had been advised by the city that they were concerned about the height but never an indication that they were outright opposed. after more than eight months of working with the city we were told that they completly opposed the project and that only a 20 storey building would be considered. for those wondering about shadows, the impact of the proposed building on the north side of the street is the same with the as of right building that would be approximately 10 stories! the second phase of the hudson project is approved at 32 stories, the tiff building at 42 stories. it is very frustrating when you make all best efforts to engage in a collaborative process and then the direction is changed at the 11th hour. our commitment in quality development is shown in our previous projects and our sensitivity to urban morphology can be specifically seen in our dia project (www.dialife.ca). dealing with the city is truly challenging, i'll leave it at that. we are going to the omb.
as for profitability, the project would not be profitable at 20 stories. the one thing that is always ignored when talking about the 'greedy' developer is the level of risk that is assumed and the time of payback. typically a developer will not see return on his investment for 4-5 years after he has started spending and given the volatility of the market, a dollar spent today is absorbing the risk for the next 5 years...and all the news about the market bursting and prices crashing...though we are confident in the market, hence launching m5v, it does enhance the risk.
as for m5v itself, it is definitely a departure from the norm. as a company we are committed to offering an experience that is different. we did not want to make this lip service and so the sales office was designed to really show that we are committed to making a difference and showing that living in a condo is not compromising home living. we speant the year leading upto the launch listening to what home buyers had to say, and we are making our best efforts to respond. our commitment is shown in the design, the opportunities to customize and the buildings commitment to LEED, the sales office will be the first ever LEED registered sale office. our project brochure is also a shift, with a focus on resource and home buying information.
and as for the $4 Mil suite, yes, its one of the penthouse units at over 4000 sqft, with roof top terrace, internal courtyard, and views from the east to the south and the west! if you wanted the $3.5 Mil one to the East, too late, its sold for now
on a separate note we have set-up a blog on our webiste (www.m5vlife.com) i would invite all of you to post the comments here on our site. we would love to see this kind of discussion going on more openly.
please visit the sales office, not to buy, but to see the difference. in sea of sameness, we are confident that our difference is truly unique.
thanks,
mazyar
i think its flattering that our project has received so much time on this blog.
i will fill in some of the questions and though inherently subjective, i am writing to give the perspective of the developer.
we acquired the site over a year ago and as observed we went through a lengthy process with the city. we started the process by initiating an extensive urban study, that was not required, but something we thought would help shed light on what would work on this site. we reviewed this with the city and explored heights and setbacks. we went throuth several various itterations with the city and reached a point where we had agreed on most matters, we had been advised by the city that they were concerned about the height but never an indication that they were outright opposed. after more than eight months of working with the city we were told that they completly opposed the project and that only a 20 storey building would be considered. for those wondering about shadows, the impact of the proposed building on the north side of the street is the same with the as of right building that would be approximately 10 stories! the second phase of the hudson project is approved at 32 stories, the tiff building at 42 stories. it is very frustrating when you make all best efforts to engage in a collaborative process and then the direction is changed at the 11th hour. our commitment in quality development is shown in our previous projects and our sensitivity to urban morphology can be specifically seen in our dia project (www.dialife.ca). dealing with the city is truly challenging, i'll leave it at that. we are going to the omb.
as for profitability, the project would not be profitable at 20 stories. the one thing that is always ignored when talking about the 'greedy' developer is the level of risk that is assumed and the time of payback. typically a developer will not see return on his investment for 4-5 years after he has started spending and given the volatility of the market, a dollar spent today is absorbing the risk for the next 5 years...and all the news about the market bursting and prices crashing...though we are confident in the market, hence launching m5v, it does enhance the risk.
as for m5v itself, it is definitely a departure from the norm. as a company we are committed to offering an experience that is different. we did not want to make this lip service and so the sales office was designed to really show that we are committed to making a difference and showing that living in a condo is not compromising home living. we speant the year leading upto the launch listening to what home buyers had to say, and we are making our best efforts to respond. our commitment is shown in the design, the opportunities to customize and the buildings commitment to LEED, the sales office will be the first ever LEED registered sale office. our project brochure is also a shift, with a focus on resource and home buying information.
and as for the $4 Mil suite, yes, its one of the penthouse units at over 4000 sqft, with roof top terrace, internal courtyard, and views from the east to the south and the west! if you wanted the $3.5 Mil one to the East, too late, its sold for now
on a separate note we have set-up a blog on our webiste (www.m5vlife.com) i would invite all of you to post the comments here on our site. we would love to see this kind of discussion going on more openly.
please visit the sales office, not to buy, but to see the difference. in sea of sameness, we are confident that our difference is truly unique.
thanks,
mazyar
J
joel in TO
Guest
Re: M5V - the developer's turn
Thanks for the informative post and welcome. The developer's point of view here is well appreciated.
Thanks for the informative post and welcome. The developer's point of view here is well appreciated.
3
3Dementia
Guest
Re: M5V - the developer's turn
Every time I speak with a planner, he/she seems nervous, paranoid, over-worked and a bit bewildered by their mandate. As you pointed out, it's fine to be tough and secure benefits for city and protect the "the plan" but when a handshake deal is done, it's not fair to change the rules at the last minute.
Love it or hate it, the postal code condo is unique, and I applaud this. In fact I hope you guys get involved in one of the few point towers in the East Bayfront... do not want another red brick St. Lawrence Community of boxes built there.
BUT............
As someone who works in marketing/advertising I have 2 words about your following statement:
You're FIRED!
Just kidding.
Every time I speak with a planner, he/she seems nervous, paranoid, over-worked and a bit bewildered by their mandate. As you pointed out, it's fine to be tough and secure benefits for city and protect the "the plan" but when a handshake deal is done, it's not fair to change the rules at the last minute.
Love it or hate it, the postal code condo is unique, and I applaud this. In fact I hope you guys get involved in one of the few point towers in the East Bayfront... do not want another red brick St. Lawrence Community of boxes built there.
BUT............
As someone who works in marketing/advertising I have 2 words about your following statement:
You're FIRED!
Just kidding.
B
Brighter Hell
Guest
Re: M5V - the developer's turn
As for developers, sometimes their side of the story can be inaccurate. Sometimes planning departments are very clear about certain requirements right from the start, and they're still accused of making 11th hour changes and dragging their feet. I'm not saying that's the case here, just something to keep in mind. The results of the OMB case should be interesting.
Toronto's planning does have balls, that's why it's at the OMB now. What happens at the OMB is out of the City's control.
As for developers, sometimes their side of the story can be inaccurate. Sometimes planning departments are very clear about certain requirements right from the start, and they're still accused of making 11th hour changes and dragging their feet. I'm not saying that's the case here, just something to keep in mind. The results of the OMB case should be interesting.
B
Bogtrotter
Guest
Re: M5V - the developer's turn
Interesting to hear a developers pov.
"for those wondering about shadows, the impact of the proposed building on the north side of the street is the same with the as of right building that would be approximately 10 stories!"
Do developers provide diagrams depicting shadow impacts on the surroundings? It would be interesting to actually see a shadow comparison between a 10 and 20 storey building at different times of the day.
Interesting to hear a developers pov.
"for those wondering about shadows, the impact of the proposed building on the north side of the street is the same with the as of right building that would be approximately 10 stories!"
Do developers provide diagrams depicting shadow impacts on the surroundings? It would be interesting to actually see a shadow comparison between a 10 and 20 storey building at different times of the day.
E
Ed007Toronto
Guest
Re: M5V - the developer's turn
Mazyar wondering how you found out about the forum. The reason I ask is that I was in the sales centre last weekend. When I filled out the registration info at your front desk I put urbantoronto.ca as the means by which I found out about M5V. Wondering if that led you here.
If so I'll ask all members to use this technique to help promote the forum in the future.
Mazyar wondering how you found out about the forum. The reason I ask is that I was in the sales centre last weekend. When I filled out the registration info at your front desk I put urbantoronto.ca as the means by which I found out about M5V. Wondering if that led you here.
If so I'll ask all members to use this technique to help promote the forum in the future.
D
Darkstar416
Guest
Re: M5V - the developer's turn
Ed, I did that at the London on the Esplanade and the X-Condo sales office too (a while back)!
Ed, I did that at the London on the Esplanade and the X-Condo sales office too (a while back)!