Toronto Lower Simcoe Ramp | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto

[DSC]

I believe the garage is also owned by the feds for some reason - which makes redeveloping less likely.

This makes sense as much of the waterfront was owned by the Feds (Harbourfront still is, I think) I would say that it being Federally owned (if it is) makes sale and redevelopment VERY likely. The Canada Lands Company are selling off 'surplus' Federal property all the time and running public parking garages is not a core Federal responsibility.

 

[muller877]

Officially there won't be a sidewalk, just the trail.

The city made it this way not because they thought the garage would go soon - but because of the constrained ROW. No space for a sidewalk even if they wanted to. If the garage ever does redevelop, it'll be widened - but the city isn't banking on it.
.

There are also the restrictions for building towers too close to each other. And the cities insistence that any pay parking has to be replaced as part of the rebuild. Severe limitations to this lot which may restrict any future building.

If I was a developer the best way to redevelop would be to (1) build new supports through the existing garage and at the same time refurbish the lot, (2) build one very large tower in the center of the lot (water view between 2 buildings) and then (3) reclad the existing garage with 1/2 of the spots for tenants only.

No change to the width they give the city! And regardless the tower needs to be at the North end of the site to have enough distance from the other towers nearby.

 

[Razz]

Taken July 9, 2018:

The contractors aren't wasting any time digging up the asphalt along the north sidewalk on Harbour Street. Glad to finally see this happening. Long overdue.

 

[DSC]

The north side ought to go fast, they moved the street drains to their new locations last year so it ought to be "full speed ahead" with concrete and asphalt.

 

[drum118]

July 02
Just finish doing the photos I shot that day and the City has open itself to major legal issues if it remain as is by the parking garage.

If the path is only to be use by cycles, not only the City open itself to lawsuits if any pedestrian is injury, its in violation of the OADO Act. The accessibility community will have a field day over that area today, let alone the 2025 deadline.

Don't give much hope for trees for this area, next to the curb lane

Lot more up on site from Bay to Simcoe

 

[innsertnamehere]

huh - the trail runs past the ramp. I thought it ended at Simcoe - anyone know how far it goes? does it end at Rees?

 

[DSC]

huh - the trail runs past the ramp. I thought it ended at Simcoe - anyone know how far it goes? does it end at Rees?

It used to go to Spadina and I suspect it will again.

 

[wmedia]

Just now. Intersection of Bay & Harbour. North sidewalk construction.

 

[nfitz]

Just finish doing the photos I shot that day and the City has open itself to major legal issues if it remain as is by the parking garage.

I don't see how. There's no legal requirement to have a bike path.

If the path is only to be use by cycles, not only the City open itself to lawsuits if any pedestrian is injury, its in violation of the OADO Act. The accessibility community will have a field day over that area today, let alone the 2025 deadline.

I can't see how you are getting here.

Looking at the photos and wheelchair ramps, clearly the asphalt would be a mixed-use trial (which always gives priority to pedestrians), or simply for pedestrians (which is unusual these days with asphalt - but not unheard of ).

Even then if I'm wrong - I don't believe there's any AODA requirements to have a sidewalk on both sides of the street! There's certainly a lot of streets in the city that don't have sidewalks on both sides - heck even on either side as you move from urban Toronto to suburban Toronto!

Not sure why this is about the parking garage, if the sidewalk/etc. is too narrow. Surely it is pre-existing, and the roadway itself should be narrower.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Officially there won't be a sidewalk, just the trail.

The city made it this way not because they thought the garage would go soon - but because of the constrained ROW. No space for a sidewalk even if they wanted to. If the garage ever does redevelop, it'll be widened - but the city isn't banking on it.

I believe the garage is also owned by the feds for some reason - which makes redeveloping less likely.

And yet they had to constrain it all in the first place for a short vehicular lane that ends not that far east of the intersection. I won't pretend to be that knowledgeable about traffic dynamics, but it really doesn't seem all that useful. At best, it will accomodate additional drivers off the Gardiner ramp, who will then get stuck in the intersection and block north-south traffic.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It is actually quite useful according to people I've talked to that are knowledgeable in the subject. Essentially the real capacity constraint on roads is intersection throughput - by adding an additional lane, even just through the intersection to the other side, you increase the intersection capacity significantly.

Now in this case, given the mess of left turns and weaving caused by that turning movement from York Street - I expect that it doesn't actually make much of a difference. But normally, it would.

Has anyone else noticed the backs ups and weaving issues being created at York Street with people turning left? It has made going straight through on Lake Shore almost impossible. I used to drive occasionally from Strachan to Yonge on Lake Shore - but find its taking 15-20 minutes more now than it used to. Now I drive westbound on Lake Shore, get on the Gardiner at Jameson, and then exit at Simcoe to avoid the bottleneck.

The city needs to find a fix - maybe ban left turns at York St. if you are coming from the Simcoe ramp somehow?

 

[sikandar]

It is actually quite useful according to people I've talked to that are knowledgeable in the subject. Essentially the real capacity constraint on roads is intersection throughput - by adding an additional lane, even just through the intersection to the other side, you increase the intersection capacity significantly.

Now in this case, given the mess of left turns and weaving caused by that turning movement from York Street - I expect that it doesn't actually make much of a difference. But normally, it would.

Has anyone else noticed the backs ups and weaving issues being created at York Street with people turning left? It has made going straight through on Lake Shore almost impossible. I used to drive occasionally from Strachan to Yonge on Lake Shore - but find its taking 15-20 minutes more now than it used to. Now I drive westbound on Lake Shore, get on the Gardiner at Jameson, and then exit at Simcoe to avoid the bottleneck.

The city needs to find a fix - maybe ban left turns at York St. if you are coming from the Simcoe ramp somehow?

Banning left turns on York St. would ultimately just make things worse. You're favouring through-traffic on Lake Shore, at the cost of punting the left-turn problem further east to Bay St, which will soon be heavily impacted by the GO Bus terminal, 30 Bay and CIBC Square.

At the end of the day, cars are turning left on York to get to a destination. Many are just skipping the huge backlog at Spadina, but I wonder how many are taxis/ride-sharing/drop offs to SBA/Union Station/Financial District that could be much better accommodated via a drop-off lane on Harbour that connects to the overhead PATH bridge. Disappointed that the city hasn't at least studied the possibility of a through-traffic drop-off zone that could avoid any left turns into downtown.

 

[Panontario]

It is actually quite useful according to people I've talked to that are knowledgeable in the subject. Essentially the real capacity constraint on roads is intersection throughput - by adding an additional lane, even just through the intersection to the other side, you increase the intersection capacity significantly.

Now in this case, given the mess of left turns and weaving caused by that turning movement from York Street - I expect that it doesn't actually make much of a difference. But normally, it would.

Has anyone else noticed the backs ups and weaving issues being created at York Street with people turning left? It has made going straight through on Lake Shore almost impossible. I used to drive occasionally from Strachan to Yonge on Lake Shore - but find its taking 15-20 minutes more now than it used to. Now I drive westbound on Lake Shore, get on the Gardiner at Jameson, and then exit at Simcoe to avoid the bottleneck.

The city needs to find a fix - maybe ban left turns at York St. if you are coming from the Simcoe ramp somehow?

I drive there daily. And surprisingly, I found that it takes less time to get off the gardiner since the introduction of the new setup in January. I am very surprised by this experience. It does look messy. But somehow, I have been saving at least couple minutes compared to the old "roller coaster" ramp setup.

 

[TOareaFan]

It is actually quite useful according to people I've talked to that are knowledgeable in the subject. Essentially the real capacity constraint on roads is intersection throughput - by adding an additional lane, even just through the intersection to the other side, you increase the intersection capacity significantly.

Now in this case, given the mess of left turns and weaving caused by that turning movement from York Street - I expect that it doesn't actually make much of a difference. But normally, it would.

Has anyone else noticed the backs ups and weaving issues being created at York Street with people turning left? It has made going straight through on Lake Shore almost impossible. I used to drive occasionally from Strachan to Yonge on Lake Shore - but find its taking 15-20 minutes more now than it used to. Now I drive westbound on Lake Shore, get on the Gardiner at Jameson, and then exit at Simcoe to avoid the bottleneck.

The city needs to find a fix - maybe ban left turns at York St. if you are coming from the Simcoe ramp somehow?

Funny you post that....I actually used the ramp for the first time yesterday.....and I was turning up York.....I was really surprised by how difficult it is to get over to the left lane to make the turn.....I knew (from prescouting pictures and maps) that you had to fairly quickly get over two lanes to make the turn...I assumed, however, that there would be some measures to control the situation so that people getting a green light at the bottom of the ramp at Simcoe would have some period of time where no one was coming EB in those two lanes. You are right, the difficulty that I and others had getting over created a temporary block of a couple of through lanes....but I am not sure that banning lefts onto York is the right answer.

 

[Panontario]

Funny you post that....I actually used the ramp for the first time yesterday.....and I was turning up York.....I was really surprised by how difficult it is to get over to the left lane to make the turn.....I knew (from prescouting pictures and maps) that you had to fairly quickly get over two lanes to make the turn...I assumed, however, that there would be some measures to control the situation so that people getting a green light at the bottom of the ramp at Simcoe would have some period of time where no one was coming EB in those two lanes. You are right, the difficulty that I and others had getting over created a temporary block of a couple of through lanes....but I am not sure that banning lefts onto York is the right answer.

Actually, the lights turn green on the ramp before they do for the EB Lake Shore. EB Lake Shore has a left-turning green light on at the same time, but the through light remains red while the Lower Simcoe ramp gets a head start.