Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

TOareaFan said:
EDIT: it may be helpful to read what Forbes magazine had to say about the Jays in March of this year as they ranked the team 27th in value amongst MLB franchises!

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Toronto-Blue-Jays_339533.html
Click to expand...

For the record, Forbes should not be used as a rock solid source. Many owners of pro sports teams have criticized Forbes' analysis and numbers in the past, including Washington Capitals and Wizards owner Ted Leonsis...

Forbes undervalues us.

But who cares?

We are in first place in the NHL.

We sell out every game.

We are situated in a top 5 media market.

We now own the building that we play in,too.
Click to expand...

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/pay_no_attention_to_forbes/
 
MapleLeafs said:
Because they had less franchises then the NFL and MLB? No North American pro sports league has expressed any desire to expand anytime soon, and that view doesn't seem to be changing.
Click to expand...

The NBA had 26 teams in 1991 They have 28 now. The NFL had 28. Now 32, becaus of 4 expansion, including on in 2002. I doubt that had anything to do with it.
All I am asking is for some other posters to be. I've outlined why I don't think private money can be realistically found for a stadium and a team. I have yet to see any solid points to contrary.
Click to expand...

Do you really have to know everything that goes on in the mayors office?
 
Big Daddy said:
Well, I don’t have any statistics, but from my personal experience around the water cooler, ain't nobody asking or talking about the latest Argo or CFL game - nobody, noooobody. It's as close to irrelevant as it gets with sports teams.

I'm not an NFL fan by any stretch (or even football for that matter), but almost everyone I know is a fan and has a Cap and/or sweatshirt for one or more of the NFL teams - do you ever see and Argos cap or sweatshirt? and how many of our friends and colleagues are excited about the Superbowl? How many bother with the Greycup? Does anyone know where it will be next year? Not Toronto, thats for sure.

Not to mention, it's bad enough our city is involved with an irrelevant league but to get your ass handed to you by Saskatchewan? Winnipeg?? gulp Hamilton.....and regularly!!!
Good God have mercy. Could anything be more embarrassing?

I think just like the whole country roots for the Jays they would root for an NFL team here too.

Having said that, I still don't think it's feasible AND I hate sucking up and following the Americans again.



A far better idea is why don't we all just pool our money and buy a real hockey team?
Click to expand...

It's in Toronto in 2012.

And I hate giving hockey to the Americans, but we did, so that argument is out the window.
 
Big Daddy said:
Well, I don’t have any statistics, but from my personal experience around the water cooler, ain't nobody asking or talking about the latest Argo or CFL game - nobody, noooobody. It's as close to irrelevant as it gets with sports teams.

I'm not an NFL fan by any stretch (or even football for that matter), but almost everyone I know is a fan and has a Cap and/or sweatshirt for one or more of the NFL teams - do you ever see and Argos cap or sweatshirt? and how many of our friends and colleagues are excited about the Superbowl? How many bother with the Greycup? Does anyone know where it will be next year? Not Toronto, thats for sure.

Not to mention, it's bad enough our city is involved with an irrelevant league but to get your ass handed to you by Saskatchewan? Winnipeg?? gulp Hamilton.....and regularly!!!
Good God have mercy. Could anything be more embarrassing?

I think just like the whole country roots for the Jays they would root for an NFL team here too.

Having said that, I still don't think it's feasible AND I hate sucking up and following the Americans again.



A far better idea is why don't we all just pool our money and buy a real hockey team?
Click to expand...

It's in Toronto in 2012.

And I hate giving hockey to the Americans, but we did, so that argument is out the window.
 
An NFL team is a great idea to bring to Toronto. I grew up in Michigan, and I think a comparison can be made to Ford Field in Detroit.

Cost of Field/Franchise
When the Lions built Ford Field in 2000 it cost 430 million. Adjusted for 2010 inflation that would be approx. 565 million. (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/). One could argue the use of pre-existing structure reduced costs to the field, but still it shows a proper stadium could be built on the cheap side that holds 65K+ people (Ford Field capacity). I also agree as is posted throughout the forum that the money for the franchise and stadium is out there should the NFL be interested in Toronto.

Location
I’ve read about the proposed location. The Portlands is a good idea. If you can drop a football stadium in a decaying area of Detroit and be successful, then the Portlands would be no problem. Last Lions game I went to, none of us wanted to be more than a few block from the parking lot, but we still want. Although I find the idea of renovating the Rogers’ Centre appealing, it lacks in tailgating promise, this also applies for inside The Exhibition.

Interest/Tailgate
NFL is an experience. You want your own team to cheer for. I would never go to a Chicago Bear’s hosted game at Ford Field should the situation arise. They are the opponent. Also of importance for football is a proper tailgating area. (http://www.ticketcity.com/nfl-tickets/nfc/detroit-lions-tickets/ford-field-experience.html) Not like how Budweiser sponsors a tailgate. Part of the real NFL and fan celebrations is parking in the morning and having beers and eggs on a pop up BBQ. People share food with one another and build up excitement to the game. You take this away and you really take part of the whole experience away.

Broadcast Revenue
I’ve read the issues around this and feel they are just minor obstacles, not dead ends to the NFL coming here. The NFL could decide from many solutions. They could decide that Toronto operates separately with its’ own broadcast revenues, or maybe Toronto is valuable as it represents the country’s own team and brings in large revenues. All theorizing aside, I’m sure this could be sorted out by the NFL.
 
smarches said:
An NFL team is a great idea to bring to Toronto. I grew up in Michigan, and I think a comparison can be made to Ford Field in Detroit.

Cost of Field/Franchise
When the Lions built Ford Field in 2000 it cost 430 million. Adjusted for 2010 inflation that would be approx. 565 million. [...] it shows a proper stadium could be built on the cheap side
Click to expand...

I very much doubt that there are any private investors who would be willing to pony up half a billion dollars to construct a stadium (that's just the stadium price, not the cost of buying a team or franchise salary costs). And any stadium will have to be built with private money, or Ford will explode from the hypocrisy.

I’ve read about the proposed location. The Portlands is a good idea. If you can drop a football stadium in a decaying area of Detroit and be successful, then the Portlands would be no problem.
Click to expand...

There is no transit at the Portlands, and no reasonable way to build a subway here (and Ford certainly won't build a light rail here -- see the "exploding" point above). A stadium here would be an auto-only proposition, which means a vast sea of parking lot around it.
 
A huge area of parking lots is NOT what anyone wants in the Portlands. That would be the worst thing to happen there. It's on the waterfront. Christ, who builds acres of parking lots beside their waterfront, especially one so close to the downtown?
 
Tulse said:
I very much doubt that there are any private investors who would be willing to pony up half a billion dollars to construct a stadium (that's just the stadium price, not the cost of buying a team or franchise salary costs). And any stadium will have to be built with private money, or Ford will explode from the hypocrisy.



There is no transit at the Portlands, and no reasonable way to build a subway here (and Ford certainly won't build a light rail here -- see the "exploding" point above). A stadium here would be an auto-only proposition, which means a vast sea of parking lot around it.
Click to expand...

You have a valid concern with private investors. I have heard nothing of anyone stepping forward saying I want to pay, my stance was on pure speculation. I think it is safe to say that if the NFL truly wants a team here they will find an investor and be given any concessions they need.

You also raise a valid concern with the Portlands. I had thought with the movement of people into the downtown that having the stadium there would of been great. I have this deep desire for the waterfront to look "happy" vs. southwest Chicago decaying ports/factories. Your right about no transit there for the people, with no chance of it coming should it be built there. I like the idea of Downsview. The subway would take people up relatively quick. Anything but a monorail to the Portlands. Also, ample parking for both the 416 and 905 could be provided.
 
smarches said:
Broadcast Revenue
I’ve read the issues around this and feel they are just minor obstacles, not dead ends to the NFL coming here. The NFL could decide from many solutions. They could decide that Toronto operates separately with its’ own broadcast revenues, or maybe Toronto is valuable as it represents the country’s own team and brings in large revenues. All theorizing aside, I’m sure this could be sorted out by the NFL.
Click to expand...

The whole broadcast revenue 'issue' is just one of the straws that the desperate anti-NFL people keep grasping for. In reality Toronto would probably have higher viewership than many/most teams (particularly the small market ones), as evidenced by the Jays viewership, and the only 'problem' would be dealing with the extra revenue.
 
gei said:
The whole broadcast revenue 'issue' is just one of the straws that the desperate anti-NFL people keep grasping for. In reality Toronto would probably have higher viewership than many/most teams (particularly the small market ones), as evidenced by the Jays viewership, and the only 'problem' would be dealing with the extra revenue.
Click to expand...
The problem is not one of audience, but location -- Toronto is not a US ad market, and the broadcast deals are predicated on the broadcasters being able to sell advertising. The current NFL contracts are with US networks, who don't advertise to Canadians. A separate Canadian broadcast deal (with ad sales) would have to be arranged for a Toronto NFL team, and I highly doubt that it would be nearly as lucrative as a deal in the US (e.g., how much do Canadian broadcasters get for SuperBowl ads compared to the US?). If overall broadcast revenue were split equally among all NFL teams, a Toronto team would benefit disproportionately, since the Canadian broadcast revenue would be worth less. I can't see US teams tolerating this.

I am not at all anti-NFL, as I think it would be fun to have a team in Toronto. I just a) don't want any public money spent on it, and b) don't want a stadium sited at the waterfront. If Ford could meet those two criteria, he can go right ahead as far as I'm concerned.
 
Tulse said:
The problem is not one of audience, but location -- Toronto is not a US ad market, and the broadcast deals are predicated on the broadcasters being able to sell advertising. The current NFL contracts are with US networks, who don't advertise to Canadians. A separate Canadian broadcast deal (with ad sales) would have to be arranged for a Toronto NFL team, and I highly doubt that it would be nearly as lucrative as a deal in the US (e.g., how much do Canadian broadcasters get for SuperBowl ads compared to the US?). If overall broadcast revenue were split equally among all NFL teams, a Toronto team would benefit disproportionately, since the Canadian broadcast revenue would be worth less. I can't see US teams tolerating this.

I am not at all anti-NFL, as I think it would be fun to have a team in Toronto. I just a) don't want any public money spent on it, and b) don't want a stadium sited at the waterfront. If Ford could meet those two criteria, he can go right ahead as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

obviously canadian advertisers would pay less for advertising during the superbowl because there would be fewer people watching. Whereas there would be MORE people watching a Toronto Bills game than there would be watching a Buffalo Bills game. Sure 50% of the revenue would come from Canadian advertisers (and 50% from the broadcast states-side), but they would just split the revenue up the same way they do now.
 
Tulse said:
The problem is not one of audience, but location -- Toronto is not a US ad market, and the broadcast deals are predicated on the broadcasters being able to sell advertising. The current NFL contracts are with US networks, who don't advertise to Canadians. A separate Canadian broadcast deal (with ad sales) would have to be arranged for a Toronto NFL team, and I highly doubt that it would be nearly as lucrative as a deal in the US (e.g., how much do Canadian broadcasters get for SuperBowl ads compared to the US?). If overall broadcast revenue were split equally among all NFL teams, a Toronto team would benefit disproportionately, since the Canadian broadcast revenue would be worth less. I can't see US teams tolerating this.

I am not at all anti-NFL, as I think it would be fun to have a team in Toronto. I just a) don't want any public money spent on it, and b) don't want a stadium sited at the waterfront. If Ford could meet those two criteria, he can go right ahead as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

I partially agree. But it won't be 100 percent the private investors or us. A team would contribute some. Like the Vikings are giving 40 percent for a stadium. And for broadcast, after next year, the deal is up. There will be no NFL this year. Next year a new, NBA style deal can be written.

Has anyone considered a suburb or some other area? I.E Halton Hills? or Pickering?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.600035,-79.837646&spn=0.067626,0.169086&t=h&z=13

Lots of open land. The CFL Ti Cats almost moved to Milton for reference.
 
theterribleone said:
I partially agree. But it won't be 100 percent the private investors or us.
Click to expand...
I don't think the taxpayers should have to pony up anything for a commercial pro sports team.

Has anyone considered a suburb or some other area? I.E Halton Hills? or Pickering?
Click to expand...
I doubt our esteemed mayor has, but that seems like a reasonable solution to me if Rogers Centre can't be retrofitted.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top