Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[Northern Light]

Move where? Bolton, Milton...of course they want money

They were offered another site only a few blocks away.

No one is suggesting they move to Bolton.

No one expects them to move their operations for free; the issue is why they are holding out when they've been offered an alternate site and presumably some monetary incentive to move.

The suggestion by me, is that 'more money' is the most probable motivation.

 

[Towered]

They were offered another site only a few blocks away.

No one is suggesting they move to Bolton.

No one expects them to move their operations for free; the issue is why they are holding out when they've been offered an alternate site and presumably some monetary incentive to move.

The suggestion by me, is that 'more money' is the most probable motivation.

Expropriate if they don't play ball soon.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Detailed Park Design - from the April WT DRP:

https://waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/wcm/connect/waterfront/7e47c335-def9-47d2-8f5b-f33f802584e7/2+-+PLFP+Parks+DD+April+2020+WDRP+-+Watermarked.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Detailed Park Design - from the April WT DRP:

https://waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/wcm/connect/waterfront/7e47c335-def9-47d2-8f5b-f33f802584e7/2+-+PLFP+Parks+DD+April+2020+WDRP+-+Watermarked.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

AoD

TY for the post.

Bad news.............the plant list has serious flaws.................lots of non-natives, some invasive; and even some good species but that are ill-suited to that habitat.

I'll be writing extensive notes to post here.............

And to forward to the correct parties.

 

[newamsterdam]

Detailed Park Design - from the April WT DRP:

https://waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/wcm/connect/waterfront/7e47c335-def9-47d2-8f5b-f33f802584e7/2+-+PLFP+Parks+DD+April+2020+WDRP+-+Watermarked.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

AoD

Thanks for sharing. Exciting details!

 

[ADRM]

I wonder what the logic was behind parceling out Promontory Park North as a separate scope of work from all this; it seems a little odd to deliver a brand new public space that abruptly ends before the water's edge on the northwestern boundary. Is anyone aware of a funding and/or phasing plan for Promontory Park North (and, for that matter, both Villers Park on the northeastern tip of the new island adjacent to the Don Greenway, and the "Future Destination Play Area" in Promontory Park South)?

Still, I really do like how the vision for the mix of uses in the in-scope parks is taking shape -- it's a really nice breadth of uses without too much jammed in, and I appreciate the balance they're trying to strike with respect to much of the new landscape taking a more naturalized and wild vibe as opposed to overly manicured and sterile.

Also, this is a very cool and informative look at the present state/progress:

And we haven't seen a whole lot of higher-fidelity renderings, so this is fun to see:

...and ditto the Atlas crane details:

 

[Dr. Snoot]

TY for the post.

Bad news.............the plant list has serious flaws.................lots of non-natives, some invasive; and even some good species but that are ill-suited to that habitat.

I'll be writing extensive notes to post here.............

And to forward to the correct parties.

That is the most extensive planting list I've ever seen. I thank you for your expertise in making it better.

I was a bit surprised to see no amelanchier (serviceberry). Fantastic native that provides year-round interest and lots of food for wildlife.

 

[Northern Light]

That is the most extensive planting list I've ever seen. I thank you for your expertise in making it better.

I was a bit surprised to see no amelanchier (serviceberry). Fantastic native that provides year-round interest and lots of food for wildlife.

You're welcome; and me too, in that order.

 

[Northern Light]

Ok......sigh...........

So I finished reviewing the list................

Even with letting a lot of stuff go...............that is near native, and probably not harmful, but not ideal.............

I came up with over 30 non-native species...............(If I was being officious, the problem species list would double)

20 are not even from North America

One is from Alabama...........

And they want to plant a shade-loving species that's native in the full sun.................

FFS

******

So I am not going to copy/paste my list here, as I do post under a pseudonym for a reason; and I will be submitting my full list of suggested revisions.

I will highlight a few of my objections that some of you may wish to follow-up on with Waterfrontoronto or the City.

1) Hedge Maple is on their list; It's European, and there is some evidence it can reproduce here. I don't know if it's invasive, there's not that much of it around, but given our community's negative problem with
Norway Maple........I would prefer this one not be used.

2) Highbush Cranberry - the plant on the list is actually native, and great; the problem is most of the nurseries that claim to grow it, and label it as such, have European Highbush Cranberry (it's hard to tell the difference); the European species is invasive.

3) Weeping Willow - Native to China. Definitely can reproduce and hybridize here as well; no need for it, plenty of native willows would work; none look the same or have the same size as Weeping Willow, I understand its appeal, but it's a poor choice here.

4) Day lily, and Yellow Day Lily, both non-native, both invasive; There are better native choices available. Michigan Lily is already on their list; but they could also add Wood Lily.

5) Chinese Juniper, non-native, can and does reproduce here, you can see a few off to the sides of various highways where they've seeded.

There are lots more problems but I'll limit it to that..

If this is something you care about, and you're expert, do write with details to relevant people

If you're not expert, but want to write, just say you've been made aware of a large number of non-native plant choices and would appreciate a review and edit of the list to focus on native wherever possible.

 

[Tunafish13]

So I know there is some controversy about the plant life stated above, but even still I have to say...

This project is probably my favourite project in the entire city. The playground area for kids looks amazing, the art trails looks incredible, the greenspace looks like it's well thought out and there is areas for canoe launches and other recreational spaces. The esplanade space on the west coast of this looks like it'll be a huge tourist draw with views of the city look great. The whole thing looks like it'll be amazing.

 

[Northern Light]

So I know there is some controversy about the plant life stated above, but even still I have to say...

This project is probably my favourite project in the entire city. The playground area for kids looks amazing, the art trails looks incredible, the greenspace looks like it's well thought out and there is areas for canoe launches and other recreational spaces. The esplanade space on the west coast of this looks like it'll be a huge tourist draw with views of the city look great. The whole thing looks like it'll be amazing.

It has all the potential to be a great project.

But so did Bloor Street's initial facelift that saw more than 2/3 of the trees die.

Important to get the details right so the project can be what it should.

Worth saying here, I was one who advised against the way Bloor was being done at the planning stage..........

It failed.

I don't want to see that mistake repeated.

Great design on paper.

Needs material refinement.

 

[lenaitch]

Ok......sigh...........

So I finished reviewing the list................

Even with letting a lot of stuff go...............that is near native, and probably not harmful, but not ideal.............

I came up with over 30 non-native species...............(If I was being officious, the problem species list would double)

20 are not even from North America

One is from Alabama...........

And they want to plant a shade-loving species that's native in the full sun.................

FFS

******

So I am not going to copy/paste my list here, as I do post under a pseudonym for a reason; and I will be submitting my full list of suggested revisions.

I will highlight a few of my objections that some of you may wish to follow-up on with Waterfrontoronto or the City.

1) Hedge Maple is on their list; It's European, and there is some evidence it can reproduce here. I don't know if it's invasive, there's not that much of it around, but given our community's negative problem with
Norway Maple........I would prefer this one not be used.

2) Highbush Cranberry - the plant on the list is actually native, and great; the problem is most of the nurseries that claim to grow it, and label it as such, have European Highbush Cranberry (it's hard to tell the difference); the European species is invasive.

3) Weeping Willow - Native to China. Definitely can reproduce and hybridize here as well; no need for it, plenty of native willows would work; none look the same or have the same size as Weeping Willow, I understand its appeal, but it's a poor choice here.

4) Day lily, and Yellow Day Lily, both non-native, both invasive; There are better native choices available. Michigan Lily is already on their list; but they could also add Wood Lily.

5) Chinese Juniper, non-native, can and does reproduce here, you can see a few off to the sides of various highways where they've seeded.

There are lots more problems but I'll limit it to that..

If this is something you care about, and you're expert, do write with details to relevant people

If you're not expert, but want to write, just say you've been made aware of a large number of non-native plant choices and would appreciate a review and edit of the list to focus on native wherever possible.

I'm certainly not that knowledgeable but tend to agree with your comments.
Norway Maple - It's one advantage is that it will grow pretty much anywhere but is not particularly friendly with other flora trying to grow under its canopy.
Cranberry - Does not cranberry and possibly most junipers need rather acidic soil to thrive?
Willows - Agree they should choose a native species. Willows help to draw down the water table and I'm wondering if that is why they want willows in this area.
Lillies - Agree that there are many native species to choose from.

*****

On the Lafarge thing, I'm wondering if they see increased costs in the shipping channel. If a ship cannot get in and out unaided it will increase their costs, although admittedly I don't know that. Perhaps they are just being coy at not jumping at the first offer.

I get that expropriation can be appropriate 'for the greater good', but the city needs to not appear unfriendly to industry, unless that's what it wants. I'm actually quite surprised Redpath has hung in. The Port of Toronto is on par with Goderich (pop. ~7600) in terms of movements and tonnage.

 

[Northern Light]

I'm certainly not that knowledgeable but tend to agree with your comments.
Norway Maple - It's one advantage is that it will grow pretty much anywhere but is not particularly friendly with other flora trying to grow under its canopy.

Its main use here was that it is road-salt tolerant, so useful as a street tree, if you ignore the problems.

The dense shade and root structure definitely thwart almost anything growing underneath. There is also research ongoing suggesting Norway Maple may amend the soil around it to make it unfriendly to competitor plants.

Similar to what Black Walnut does. Through that tree is native.

Norways are also prone to Tar-spot on their leaves; and they don't provide a good food source for native wildlife; which has no difficulty eating the new growth off sugar maples!

Cranberry - Does not cranberry and possibly most junipers need rather acidic soil to thrive?

In short, no.

Cranberry has wide-ranging tolerance as is often true of swamp/marsh species.

Juniper likewise can handle a huge amount of BS though it dislikes being flooded.

The problem here is the type of juniper, (Chinese), which can being invasive in our area; and which really has no added value given that we have 2 native junipers already.

The strength of Juniper is what it will abide; its weakness is that in most cases it doesn't handle competition from other plants well; which is why it's adaptive to crap conditions.

Willows - Agree they should choose a native species. Willows help to draw down the water table and I'm wondering if that is why they want willows in this area.

Don't know their reasoning, but I suspect they are for the manicured space more than the 'natural' portion, Their unique droopiness and the slightly golden hue they give off especially in spring is a favourite of landscape architects.

 

[achender]

Some pictures from today and Saturday.

The tank farm disappearing.

The river channel east of Cherry St. Lots of work being done but hard to get a good idea of progress from ground level.

Looks like the caisson wall is getting underway. I think this will isolate the new river channel from Polson slip until they are ready to let the water flood in.
Not sure if these giant metal tubes will form the wall or just be used to form concrete caissons.

 

[Towered]

Have those big tanks been disused for a long time? I remember there being tons of them in the 80's which I found fascinating as a kid. Wish we could keep one...