nfitz
Superstar
It was shown as part of the bicycle trail network he was promising. Though he's managed to delete all his websites - odd that.
Did anyone save the PDF with his campaign in it?
Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto
Did anyone save the PDF with his campaign in it?
Marko
Active Member
Thanks for posting that link, jje1000. I think the aerial posted earlier looks tacky, but the quality is low, so who knows.
I was glad there was some sort of street grid proposed and I grabbed a screenshot of the that frame. It gives me a little more optimism seeing it in this form, but wanted to point out a few things I found interesting:
I made a second image with my colored notes:
First interesting thing is the diagonal avenue that slices across the whole thing. I don't think it's an actual road, but a pedestrian avenue that creates a clear sight line directly to the CN Tower. I guess it depends on the building that are eventually placed there, but a long pedestrian boulevard like that would be quite amazing all on its own if the streetwall creates the right feel, but with the tower as the visual anchor at one end? At night? Very nice touch.
The next thing is the sweeping trail the circles the the entire portlands area. It's not a continuous green park - that's still provided down the center (though smaller than I had hoped) - but would make a pretty amazing walking, cycling, jogging or rollerblading trail. A continuous band of green.
There does appear to be 4 pedestrian bridges, shown in pink.
Lastly, there is still one large plot of land left untouched, outlined with the white dotted line. is there something I'm unaware of in terms of that not being able to be developed, or is it maybe being left open in case some other high profile item can be made to fit later? Stadium maybe?
Also - I know that looks like some sort of private marina - but the idea that was shared was that people could visit the portlands with their boats, so maybe it's elaborate boat parking? The 'cafe canal' inside the breakwater could probably be a pretty nice ice skating location in the winter.
I was glad there was some sort of street grid proposed and I grabbed a screenshot of the that frame. It gives me a little more optimism seeing it in this form, but wanted to point out a few things I found interesting:
I made a second image with my colored notes:
First interesting thing is the diagonal avenue that slices across the whole thing. I don't think it's an actual road, but a pedestrian avenue that creates a clear sight line directly to the CN Tower. I guess it depends on the building that are eventually placed there, but a long pedestrian boulevard like that would be quite amazing all on its own if the streetwall creates the right feel, but with the tower as the visual anchor at one end? At night? Very nice touch.
The next thing is the sweeping trail the circles the the entire portlands area. It's not a continuous green park - that's still provided down the center (though smaller than I had hoped) - but would make a pretty amazing walking, cycling, jogging or rollerblading trail. A continuous band of green.
There does appear to be 4 pedestrian bridges, shown in pink.
Lastly, there is still one large plot of land left untouched, outlined with the white dotted line. is there something I'm unaware of in terms of that not being able to be developed, or is it maybe being left open in case some other high profile item can be made to fit later? Stadium maybe?
Also - I know that looks like some sort of private marina - but the idea that was shared was that people could visit the portlands with their boats, so maybe it's elaborate boat parking? The 'cafe canal' inside the breakwater could probably be a pretty nice ice skating location in the winter.
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Marcanadian
Moderator
^^ The empty space is the Toronto Port Authority. It won't be developed.
As a side note, in that video, they spelled Vaughan Mills as 'Vaughn Mills'. Pretty glaring error for city staff to make.
As a side note, in that video, they spelled Vaughan Mills as 'Vaughn Mills'. Pretty glaring error for city staff to make.
44 North
Senior Member
Another point that I detest about it: The shopping mall is in the centre of the whole plan. It's literally called "Town Centre". That may work in suburban planning, but not for the Old City of Toronto.
Another major flaw - inherent in the entire plan - is that it will all be built at once. Even if it's attempted to be designed out, we're going to be stuck with a uniformity. Something of this scale needs to be done in stages.
Another major flaw - inherent in the entire plan - is that it will all be built at once. Even if it's attempted to be designed out, we're going to be stuck with a uniformity. Something of this scale needs to be done in stages.
Marko
Active Member
I'm not saying that suburban planning is ideal, but this could hardly be referred to as "Old City of Toronto". It might be the largest urban clean slate this side of Abu Dhabi, but it's not Old Toronto.
Who said it would all be built at once? This land area is way too large for all of it to be fully built in 10 years, though I think they would like for the key elements to be done in that timeframe (or sooner). It's probably a 20-30 year thing, which might still mean it would be near completion by the time WT was able to actually put shovels in the ground.
Waterfront Toronto says they can come up with some funds: http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-port-lands-plan-waterfront-toronto-says?bn=1
CanadianNational
Senior Member
Well, aside from the fact that it's foundationally a speculative, disruptive land grab with no solid backers for a development of this scale:
The drawing looks very impressive. It's got a whiff of Metro Centre about it, or our very own Belgrade-New-City look, which is perkily exciting. We don't have the money, but maybe someone does - for the next thirty years. I like the diagonal sightline idea and the and semi-circular avenues. I also like the big orienting circular roundabout, the inner 'ring road' and it's lively, variegated density. It's got finely scaled lanes and sideroads, which is nice.
What I truly don't like about it, aside from the aforementioned land-grab aspect, is it's complete lack of harbourfront green space. That seems to me to be it's first, greatest flaw. That also means no re-naturalized Don River mouth, with it's attendant curvy topology. No green space by the lake. None.
After that:
-The mall looks like Daniel Libeskind designed it. That's great! Instead it likely being a boxy churn out by Precast & Ladle.
-It doesn't look like even the much-vaunted boardwalk to everywhere has survived into these drawings. It might be there, partially.
-Wharves, wharves everywhere - and even a diagonal pier and two curvy anchors that infill the harbour. Well, that's all great if you've got a yacht or two.
-The event plaza seems to have shrunk considerably and been pushed northward onto the existing finger pier. The Ferris wheel, too, looks a little less assertive. Next to those five hundred-foot towers right on the water's edge, anyway - if the height of the ferris wheel is to be believed.
-The Town Centre bit around the circle sounds a bit "The Shoppes of Don Mills" with it's mall - chain-outlet emphasis - and concentrated commercial zoning. What does this say for a fine-grained balance of zoning throughout the plan.
The rest of it is reassuringly vague and busy - despite that we have no reassurances whatsoever about what uses the land might be turned to in the future. Especially if the "let's sell it for dough" mentality keeps up. Considering that %90 of the land shown in the preliminary zoning cartoon was unspecified - and the Fords are only promising three things: a monorail, mall and ferris wheel (with event plaza and Hearn as possibilities) this plan is a whole lot of glitzy wishful thinking. None of this has solid planning, finances or political will backing it up.
It is a seductive mirage to entice us into accepting the only real pottage the Fords are promising.
-Evidently the piece of land shown here is much bigger than a swatch by the river's mouth. Who in hell's high acre would think for a second that this incredibly huge acreage, taken out from under the steady authority of Waterfront Toronto, could be appropriately mass remediated, planned and developed by the city alone?!
The drawing looks very impressive. It's got a whiff of Metro Centre about it, or our very own Belgrade-New-City look, which is perkily exciting. We don't have the money, but maybe someone does - for the next thirty years. I like the diagonal sightline idea and the and semi-circular avenues. I also like the big orienting circular roundabout, the inner 'ring road' and it's lively, variegated density. It's got finely scaled lanes and sideroads, which is nice.
What I truly don't like about it, aside from the aforementioned land-grab aspect, is it's complete lack of harbourfront green space. That seems to me to be it's first, greatest flaw. That also means no re-naturalized Don River mouth, with it's attendant curvy topology. No green space by the lake. None.
After that:
-The mall looks like Daniel Libeskind designed it. That's great! Instead it likely being a boxy churn out by Precast & Ladle.
-It doesn't look like even the much-vaunted boardwalk to everywhere has survived into these drawings. It might be there, partially.
-Wharves, wharves everywhere - and even a diagonal pier and two curvy anchors that infill the harbour. Well, that's all great if you've got a yacht or two.
-The event plaza seems to have shrunk considerably and been pushed northward onto the existing finger pier. The Ferris wheel, too, looks a little less assertive. Next to those five hundred-foot towers right on the water's edge, anyway - if the height of the ferris wheel is to be believed.
-The Town Centre bit around the circle sounds a bit "The Shoppes of Don Mills" with it's mall - chain-outlet emphasis - and concentrated commercial zoning. What does this say for a fine-grained balance of zoning throughout the plan.
The rest of it is reassuringly vague and busy - despite that we have no reassurances whatsoever about what uses the land might be turned to in the future. Especially if the "let's sell it for dough" mentality keeps up. Considering that %90 of the land shown in the preliminary zoning cartoon was unspecified - and the Fords are only promising three things: a monorail, mall and ferris wheel (with event plaza and Hearn as possibilities) this plan is a whole lot of glitzy wishful thinking. None of this has solid planning, finances or political will backing it up.
It is a seductive mirage to entice us into accepting the only real pottage the Fords are promising.
-Evidently the piece of land shown here is much bigger than a swatch by the river's mouth. Who in hell's high acre would think for a second that this incredibly huge acreage, taken out from under the steady authority of Waterfront Toronto, could be appropriately mass remediated, planned and developed by the city alone?!
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44 North
Senior Member
Since it's not Etobicoke, Scarborough, North York, East York, York... Obviously it would be Old Toronto.
Marko
Active Member
Sure, technically, but you made it sound like the land had some sort of connection to the "Old Toronto" we know and love in the core, when there is none at all. Even the WT proposal has no real connection sentiment or for your "Old Toronto" as it would almost feel like a city next to the city. It will probably feel that way no matter what gets built there over time.
Marko
Active Member
The solid backers I can't comment on - neither organization can produce them at this point, but let's consider the landgrab.
If it is being grabbed, it's being grabbed for the City of Toronto and away from WT, which is a triparate holding. Whether you like Ford or not, like this plan or not, the intention of directing more of the eventual benefits to the city itself may actually be something to give the guy credit for. The plan will be updated and revised and who knows what else, but if this little 'landgrab' either makes something happen under TPLC or lights a fire under WT (as it seemingly has) then maybe a little Ford style impatience will have served a purpose.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
Waterfront Toronto says it has enough money for their already approved plan, with the reconfigured Don mouth, parkland, flood protection and all.
http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-port-lands-plan-waterfront-toronto-says?bn=1
Meanwhile: The Executive Committee just ruled to take the land from Waterfront Toronto:
http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10285655
The decision will be revisited by council at their next meeting.
http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-port-lands-plan-waterfront-toronto-says?bn=1
Meanwhile: The Executive Committee just ruled to take the land from Waterfront Toronto:
http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10285655
The decision will be revisited by council at their next meeting.
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44 North
Senior Member
I guess I'm biased being born/raised in the core, but IMO the land does have a strong connection to Old Toronto. The Don being one of them. That's one thing I loved about WT's plan for the Lower Don Lands: that the river was finally getting the chance to meet the lake as a real river. As the third most polluted river in Canada, its being channelized into a dirty estuary is awful to see. And that a plan to fix this is completely disregarded over a few hectares of real estate is disheartening. I guess that's one reason why Ford got rid of the Bring Back the Don advisory group...so he wouldn't hear their complaints.
My point is, there is a strong connection to Old Toronto. And a plan that builds on or fortifies that connection (through street layout, architecture, overall planning) is key to making the Port Lands work. Otherwise this is just a theme park with homes.
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jje1000
Senior Member
Did WaterfrontTO scramble to divert some funding, or did Ford lie again? As for the executive committee, not surprising, but who voted for and who voted against it?
Here's the presentation itself, at the top of the page:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAge....EX9.6&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=#
hawc
Senior Member
Why has it taken so long for Waterfront Toronto to do anything and why are the Fords able to move so quickly?
Whatever your politics are on the matter it's a very reasonable question.
7 years of environmental assessments?! It's a freaking wasteland down there. Start building something already!
Whatever your politics are on the matter it's a very reasonable question.
7 years of environmental assessments?! It's a freaking wasteland down there. Start building something already!
jje1000
Senior Member
These are preliminary 'concepts' (not even plans) that will likely require another 7 years of environmental assessments. Building an entirely new neighbourhood around a floodplain requires some study m'kay?