Thanos
Active Member
Isn't the first CNE suffering from a decrease in attendance? How about we fix the first CNE before we build a second one.
Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto
Isn't the first CNE suffering from a decrease in attendance? How about we fix the first CNE before we build a second one.
Gavin
Active Member
Doug Ford mentioned all three, specifically, on Metro Morning.
Nordstrom is not in Vancouver; they're exploring locations in Canada. Ditto Macy's. Regardless, the point is that Doug mentioned them specifically, by name, under the presumption that if he builds it they will come...and that these retailers base their expansion into foreign markets on years of planning and research, not "Holy shit, a mall with a monorail!"
ttk77
Senior Member
My 2 cents:
Ferris wheel aside (which I think would be better placed at Ontario Place/CNE), the other two items being discussed have no place on the waterfront. I just don't understand why anyone would want elevated transit on our waterfront. People already complain about the wall of condos, the Gardiner and the train tracks blocking off the city from the water, so why would anyone want to make that worse. With the area very much still under development there is plenty of opportunity to accommodate both cars and LRT. As for the mall, why would anyone want to visit the waterfront only to spend all their time indoors. Indoor malls are for the suburbs where there's nothing outside to see or do. If more space for retail is desired than what is currently planned, it should come in the form of an outdoor pedestrian retail promenade.
That being said, I agree with other posters on here. The Fords have no intention of this ever being built. This a just a pie in the sky scheme meant to distract people with something shiny so they can grab the land from Waterfront Toronto and sell it off and pay for the financial disaster they've been creating since they took office.
Ferris wheel aside (which I think would be better placed at Ontario Place/CNE), the other two items being discussed have no place on the waterfront. I just don't understand why anyone would want elevated transit on our waterfront. People already complain about the wall of condos, the Gardiner and the train tracks blocking off the city from the water, so why would anyone want to make that worse. With the area very much still under development there is plenty of opportunity to accommodate both cars and LRT. As for the mall, why would anyone want to visit the waterfront only to spend all their time indoors. Indoor malls are for the suburbs where there's nothing outside to see or do. If more space for retail is desired than what is currently planned, it should come in the form of an outdoor pedestrian retail promenade.
That being said, I agree with other posters on here. The Fords have no intention of this ever being built. This a just a pie in the sky scheme meant to distract people with something shiny so they can grab the land from Waterfront Toronto and sell it off and pay for the financial disaster they've been creating since they took office.
Thanos
Active Member
And what tells you Macy's is actually interested in entering the Canadian market especially since the newest numbers indicate Canadian retail is barely moving.
Thanos
Active Member
He also mentioned the Saints would move to Toronto.
I won't be surprised if these companies get their lawyers involved soon.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
This is the only scenario that makes any sense. I also think this plan might be a smoke screen, so the Fords can take control of the waterfront and sell it off for a really cheap price. (probably to their developer friends) Do people not see what's going on? Will the city just allow this to happen?
Oh, and speaking of the Fords, did you guys see that our mayor now admits that he doesn't have the private funding to back the Sheppard subway? I thought he told us he already had private companies who were willing to fund it? Where did they go or was it all a lie from the beginning?
How bad is it, when you have a mayor who never tells you the truth, so you always have to figure out what his true agenda is. Nothing he says makes any sense on its own.
Marko
Active Member
Thank you for clarifying it's the guy's JOB to talk to potential developers.
They they get $5-10 million per acre as they're floating is yet to be seen, but we're talking up to $10 billion in land value alone, infrastructure improvements and permanent revenues added to the tax base. It's understandable that someone would want to get the ball rolling sooner than 10-20 years from now.
I understand that the previous concepts were greatly ties to the Olympics and the revenues that would flow with it - but when we lost to Beijing someone should have started moving on alternate plans instead of just saying "some day".
TonyV
Senior Member
'vibe, you're the first one to post as though you've read my mind.
I've been lazy to post this, so you get the prize, but I think the prize is only a crystal fly swatter, because the deviousness in Doug Ford's plan is just too transparent.
This whole situation has become disgusting. I am watching to see what City Council's response(s) will be ... will they just sell out or will they do their jobs?
Final word from me on this that Douggie has revealed his complete idiocy. This is fly-by-night, and it is not in the interests of the city at all. If Nordstrom (et al) are interested in Toronto, they will scope out Bloor, not some unserviced waterfront locale. And ferris wheels would directly compete with CNE, whose fate is under the magnifying glass right now. Douggie is just wasting time trying to justify his job. I hope this is as transparent to others as it is to me. He's a time waster, plain and simple. And he has no concept of what Toronto is. Suddenly the second-rate American icons such as Nordstrom and NFL are important to us? Not.
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GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
You understand that there is a fully-formed plan for the area that was unanimously approved by Council, right?
CDL.TO
Moderator
Done!
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
That is a good point about the monorail, many people already complain about the Gardner and overbuilding. It kind of runs contary to what many people believe the waterfront should be even if it can deliver in terms of effectively shuttling people about.
What is truly odd about the Ford`s is how blatantly they do things. From a politically savy perspective they sure do fail miserably regarless of the side one takes.
ttk77
Senior Member
I find it hard to believe that anyone, even with daddy's help, could make it this far in business or politics and still be this dumb. This is the main reason for my previously stated suspicion of ulterior motive.
Bruvyman
Active Member
I don't understand why these threads were merged. Its really messed up the chronology of the thread. The issues may be related, but they are their own issues.
Marko
Active Member
Yes, the same one that is being pushed out decades because no one is able to actually make it happen. I see no harm in at least opening the matter for discussion if someone can come up with a workable plan that actually has some kind of financing attached to it. If as part of Doug Ford's job at Build Toronto he has been presented with alternatives - is he supposed to shoot them down because someone else came up with a different idea that may or may never come to fruition? The same one that is also dependent on private developers that are not presently putting up the money because it isn't feasible?
Agreed.
Dilla
Senior Member
I keep hearing this, Ford voted for this plan? Is there a record of that (I said this on another forum and got shut down)?