fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
I've always thought that the TTC's unloading of the Wychwood carhouse property was a stupid, short-sighted idea that would come back to haunt them.
Toronto Leslie Barns | ?m | ?s | TTC | SAI
- Thread starter nfitz
- Start date
I've always thought that the TTC's unloading of the Wychwood carhouse property was a stupid, short-sighted idea that would come back to haunt them.
nfitz
Superstar
Why if we don't need it right now.? It's an old landfill ... normally you just leave them there and try not to build things like carbarns or aquatic facilities on top of them.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Fact :. Queen, Dundas, and Gerrard are all a short trek away from the proposed site, (as is Lakeshore should it ever get streetcar service) I doubt st. Clair cars would be stored there anyway so there won't be streetcars gerrymeriandering around the city just to get to the new car house
Fact 2: Additional streetcar capacity IS required to handle the extra cars. The current car houses, IIRC, cannot accommodate the current fleet plus the new ones so a new car house has to be built somewhere. A study was undertaken and this site was the one chosen.
This is what happens when an activist gets elected to power and doesn't take the time to become informed. As bad as her predecessor is Ms. McMahon has lost some credibility with me.
Fact 2: Additional streetcar capacity IS required to handle the extra cars. The current car houses, IIRC, cannot accommodate the current fleet plus the new ones so a new car house has to be built somewhere. A study was undertaken and this site was the one chosen.
This is what happens when an activist gets elected to power and doesn't take the time to become informed. As bad as her predecessor is Ms. McMahon has lost some credibility with me.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Councillor Layton has just published an open letter to McMahon urging her to lay off the car house: http://twitdoc.com/1F6
nfitz
Superstar
McMahon cold-called me a couple of weeks ago (I asked her where she got my number, and she said she was going through the entire voters list - as he predecessor hadn't left her any lists). I am in her ward.
She does seem to have a bee in her bonnet about it. I didn't raise the issue, she did (I'd raised Transit City ... and she segued into this). She seems to have a couple of concerns.
One of her concerns is the impacts to the traffic at the Leslie/Lakeshore intersection - which she noted was already the busiest intersection in the ward. I'm not sure how it's a big issue in AM peak, as most of the cars enter the system before 7 AM when the intersection is fairly quiet - though I can see it may impact some after the PM peak when cars are leaving service. Was there anything in the studies on how the crossing would impact east-west traffic flow? Would they have to change the cycle time? The north-south crossing was lengthened in the last year or two, as it used to be a two-stage pedestrian crossing, and now it's a one-stage.
Another concern is that the 30-metre long cars are too long to operate in Toronto traffic - at least on some of the routes. She suggested that trolley buses might be more appropriate.
She also mentioned that the Ashbridges Bay Bay Treatment Plant will need that land in the future. And she did seem overly concerned with the trees.
I believe she lives close to Woodbine and Danforth. She's a regular subway user, but I don't think she has suffered with the current streetcars the same way those of us who live between Gerrard Street and the lake do.
She does seem to have a bee in her bonnet about it. I didn't raise the issue, she did (I'd raised Transit City ... and she segued into this). She seems to have a couple of concerns.
One of her concerns is the impacts to the traffic at the Leslie/Lakeshore intersection - which she noted was already the busiest intersection in the ward. I'm not sure how it's a big issue in AM peak, as most of the cars enter the system before 7 AM when the intersection is fairly quiet - though I can see it may impact some after the PM peak when cars are leaving service. Was there anything in the studies on how the crossing would impact east-west traffic flow? Would they have to change the cycle time? The north-south crossing was lengthened in the last year or two, as it used to be a two-stage pedestrian crossing, and now it's a one-stage.
Another concern is that the 30-metre long cars are too long to operate in Toronto traffic - at least on some of the routes. She suggested that trolley buses might be more appropriate.
She also mentioned that the Ashbridges Bay Bay Treatment Plant will need that land in the future. And she did seem overly concerned with the trees.
I believe she lives close to Woodbine and Danforth. She's a regular subway user, but I don't think she has suffered with the current streetcars the same way those of us who live between Gerrard Street and the lake do.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The distance between utility poles can be between 25 m to 35 m apart. So assuming that the length of the new streetcars are about the same distance as the utility poles are apart, you can determine yourself if a neighbourhood can accommodate them. As well, the doors will not be near the ends like the current fleet, so that should also be taken into consideration.
iceman2g
New Member
EnviroTO
Senior Member
It has been clearly explained that the roof of the new carhouses need to be at least one floor higher than the roof of the new fleet. The old fleet gets serviced from below and the new fleet largely gets serviced from above... it is the trade-off of going low floor. Looking at the pictures of the existing carhouses there would be a serious issue using the existing carhouses because the work platforms would barely fit between the tracks at some of them and the workers would barely fit under the roof supports walking on them. The site is semi-industrial on the edge of the port lands near the centre of the city. Why is this a bad location? Other current carhouses are surrounded on all sides by residential areas.
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GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
I think it's a good site because it's adjacent to a sewage plant. There is no other development potential for this plan and it's not like it's a green space people can enjoy unless they lack a sense of smell.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Not to throw salt in an old wound, but this is an example of a "cost" of running streetcars that is not accounted for in the streetcar/bus debate. $430M is a serious chunk of change - enough to buy over 400 buses or about 50 LRVs. Since buses are just simple road vehicles whose design doesn't change that much (it can't because manufacturers sell thousands of buses to hundreds of transit agencies every year), if we ordered a fleet of replacement buses we wouldn't have to build a fancy new garage.
Again, I want to stress that I don't advocate replacing streetcars with buses, but that's largely because I think that Toronto's narrow downtown streets and traffic flows are unsuited to buses, not because I think streetcars are a great technology.
Again, I want to stress that I don't advocate replacing streetcars with buses, but that's largely because I think that Toronto's narrow downtown streets and traffic flows are unsuited to buses, not because I think streetcars are a great technology.
jeffreym
Active Member
This is a once in a hundred years change. Buying new buses to replace the streetcars would require new garages (2 I believe) at a few hundred million each.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
How do you know that? Do you think that streetcar technology will be the same in 100 years? We didn't even know that they would be so radically different 20 years ago.
Notice the underlined part of my previous post.
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allabootmatt
Senior Member
I thnk he meant more that new garages aren't a hidden cost specific to streetcars.
jeffreym
Active Member
My comment was backwards-looking. You phrased your comments to imply that buses stay the same while streetcars don't. My point is that this isn't exactly something that is an ongoing concern, rather that it was a one-time issue. As to my bus vs streetcars comment, as allabootmatt said, new garages aren't specific to streetcars.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Except that a new bus garage wouldn't cost $430 million - even for the equivalent bus:streetcar passenger service ratio.