Chris R.
Senior Member
Always something that could be better! I wouldn't stress about it, seems like even just a month off is a good deal!
Hamilton King William Urban Rentals | 97.56m | 30s | LIUNA | Graziani + Corazza
- Thread starter DavidCapizzano
- Start date
Chronamut
Active Member
rich people don't wanna live in places that reflect badly on their richness, aka around crazy people - hence why many live in ancaster and dundas or on the plateau - so good luck with that. What are you gonna do, lie to them and tell them the place is a wonderful area full of sane people? They will discover the truth eventually. They'll find the needles, they'll be harassed by the people.. someone will poop in front of their building lol.. they may move in, but that's not gonna mean they are gonna stay.
so its a bit of a chicken and egg situation - which improves first - the crazies go away and rich people fill in, or the rich people fill in and magically the crazies disappear? Which would you like to bet on? Where are the crazies gonna magically go? Sure we can move that methadone clinic but you're simply causing misery to wherever you move it to, as we noted with the ywca.. although that DOES seem to be the cities solution is to simply move it all out of the core, and perhaps that IS the only solution, since the mental hospitals no longer hold these people due to ethical reasons.
hell if hamilton was still "as" mafia run as it was in the past a lot of those people WOULD just magically disappear.. and end up .. somewhere else.. like the bottom of the lake..
hamilton is largely a mental health problem, not a money problem.
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Stec
Active Member
Not my unit hehe and that is definitely not accurate on the website. I do believe the building may be filling up slower than anticipated hence why they may be offering two months free rent now but my best guess is at least 15 units are now rented in Tower A. Tower B will remain empty until Tower A is nearly full. I was there yesterday and there was a stream of people coming in to tour units.
BCTed
New Member
Good to hear and I am glad that your neighbour count is increasing.
Re: the state of downtown, I agree on the chicken-and-egg thing. Yes, there are some decent restaurants and bars, but otherwise there is not a ton of attraction to living there. It needs to have jobs and entertainment and shopping and cleanliness to attract people with decent incomes. And it needs people with decent incomes to attract people with decent incomes --- Catch 22. Hopefully some of these new buildings and the renovated arena will help. I am not so convinced that the LRT will be a magical cure-all if it happens.
There have been a few times where I have come there on weekends and struggled to see any "normal" people on most blocks (Jackson Square is rough; the GO Centre is really rough; the area around the arena is really rough; even the public library can be rough) and it is a big bummer.
Chris R.
Senior Member
I also think people misunderstand what "rich" is. People that can afford these units (ie. Myself, STEC and others here) aren't too good for being around those with mental health issues and poverty seeing as how we live downtown now. I don't think that "solves" the issues downtown, but it will surely change the perception. Even now it's pretty common to see groups of nicely dressed people walking around, more similar to what you'd see in Toronto despite it's large population of individuals with mental health issues and drug addiction.
OhTheUrbanity discussed this interaction with having a mix of people in urban areas improving the safety and perception of it for those who are coming to visit. So to me, these buildings filling with hundreds or thousands of middle income people will surely improve downtown though if won't be the silver bullet that solves the issues of homelessness and drug addiction health issues.
People not from Hamilton moving into these is also great because it means they're not displacing an existing resident, which is another reason why housing supply is so important.
OhTheUrbanity discussed this interaction with having a mix of people in urban areas improving the safety and perception of it for those who are coming to visit. So to me, these buildings filling with hundreds or thousands of middle income people will surely improve downtown though if won't be the silver bullet that solves the issues of homelessness and drug addiction health issues.
People not from Hamilton moving into these is also great because it means they're not displacing an existing resident, which is another reason why housing supply is so important.
BCTed
New Member
We are all speaking the same language and have similar hopes and goals. But, to be clear, one can be not be too good to be around such people, but I can't imagine that anyone actively wants to be in the middle of a place with zombies and people passed out and trash and shopping carts full of belongings. And not everyone necessarily feels safe. And it isn't necessarily safe.
And it is good that there are some well-dressed types downtown. But the ratio of well-dressed/well-heeled people versus homeless/addicts can not be compared to Toronto in any way. People in suits seem pretty rare to me in Hamilton and are probably limited to the courthouse and a few small businesses and law offices. Toronto has thousands of people working at those kinds of places plus financial institutions plus consulting firms, plus plus plus. And there are plenty of homeless/vagrants, but they are way less visible in most areas, especially during the day.
And it is good that there are some well-dressed types downtown. But the ratio of well-dressed/well-heeled people versus homeless/addicts can not be compared to Toronto in any way. People in suits seem pretty rare to me in Hamilton and are probably limited to the courthouse and a few small businesses and law offices. Toronto has thousands of people working at those kinds of places plus financial institutions plus consulting firms, plus plus plus. And there are plenty of homeless/vagrants, but they are way less visible in most areas, especially during the day.
Chris R.
Senior Member
This is a really odd point to make. Hamilton doesn't have a lot of financial firms. We don't need people with suits on. We just need a few more people that are typical middle class people roaming.
In my time living in downtown, I feel more safe and more comfortable now than I did when we first moved here and an average weeknight was deserted downtown. Now bars and restaurants are open even on Mondays and Tuesdays because there are enough people. Especially during COVID you could see the impact having nobody around had on the perceived feel of downtown.
Hamilton is surely changing and adding 5000-10,000(at least 4000-5000 from currently under construction units) middle class people downtown, an area that currently has around 30,000 people living here will absolutely make a difference in safety and perceived safety.
Again, it won't fully solve the issue until we do more to ensure that people with mental health and drug addictions are properly helped and supported, but the same way nobody feels unsafe on the Danforth on a Saturday night, I think people will start to feel far more comfortable downtown with the continued infill of people and business. I've already noticed it going out of the house nearly every single day and evening. People are coming here more, dressed for a night out, grabbing dinner and drinks, or moving into multiplexes, apartments and shopping around downtown.
From what I've seen living here for 6 years and coming downtown for a decade the ball is already snowballed. It may slow a bit during the current economic slump, but it surely won't stop now, we're long past the point of no return barring a actual economic depression.
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BCTed
New Member
You mentioned well-dressed. The ultimate version of well-dressed to me is suits. Subtract the suits from the equation and Toronto is still not comparable in any real sense to me.
And I do hope you are correct re: the momentum. I have lived in Hamilton on-and-off for my entire life and it has never looked so bad to me in terms of vagrants/junkies. Plus the tents alongside everything. But it can be true that there is both momentum and increased homelessness/mental health/drug concerns.
And I do hope you are correct re: the momentum. I have lived in Hamilton on-and-off for my entire life and it has never looked so bad to me in terms of vagrants/junkies. Plus the tents alongside everything. But it can be true that there is both momentum and increased homelessness/mental health/drug concerns.
Chris R.
Senior Member
Hamilton's downtown is looking at a 15%-20% increase in the number of people living downtown in the next 5 years. That's a huge jump in people actively using downtown as their home. Not to mention many living in condos and are more likely to be out and about. Like I said, in my time living here since September 2018, we went from businesses being closed Monday-Wednesday and nothing selling food after 8PM except Burrito Boyz to having fancy restaurants like Le Tambour at Murray and James open during the week, multiple bars open until 2am, 7 days a week, and plenty of food options late. James St on a Monday can still be quiet, but it used to be a dead zone Monday through Wednesday. Like, absolutely deserted.
A lot of people are forgetting the huge impact 20,000 visitors to Copps arena will have nearly every weekend when HUPEG fills that arena for concerts and events. On Toronto Rock nights Hamilton's downtown is buzzing with people and we will often stick to staying in because there aren't enough restaurants and bars to meet the insane demand of people.
Chronamut
Active Member
All good points guys! Glad to see it went in a good direction!
I lived in stoney creek my whole life - hamilton was seen as the "dirty place" stoney creek refused to associate with, until we got amalgamated in and had to accept our dirty reality lol..
Growing up I was downtown a lot as I went to mohawk college for 6 years - back when the bus station was still in gage park. At this point gage park was fairly decent, however I remember the time that the mental institutions were closed down and suddenly there was an influx of mental patients downtown muttering to themselves shouting and screaming ..
I remember when king william was a ghost town, the lister block and william thomas was boarded up, and james street was a ghost town - where homeless would wander up to you and ask you for money - where people would punch each other out right in front of jackson square. The lister block being restored saved king william. I hope the buildings being restored in the gore (if they don't collapse first, wilson blanchard..) saves the gore as well.
I remember seeing the decline of the eatons center into what it rotted into after eatons collapsed. I watched as everyone moved out to the subarbs and the downtown emptied out - one only has to look at photos of the past to see how busy the core used to be, so I agree, the re-influxation of people into the core IS the first step - but in the vacuum we've sorta made hamilton into the "mental health" capital of ontario, taking people from all over - remember the scooter phase? When the govt was footing the bill for their scooters and they were everywhere? That was a plague. Making drugs essentially legal with methadone clinics .. didn't work. Tent cities.. have not helped.
Nobody REALLY wants to help these people - the city is more concerned with simply hiding them away so that people who come to the core cannot see them - but we all know that wherever these "services" move to is simply going to tank that area of the city. Mac should have a giant mental health area of the city where people with mental issues can get the help they need, but of course then that's a mental hospital thing and people start to clutch their pearls "those people are people too!" - they were once people - zombies , as mentioned above is what most of them are now, and you don't treat zombies the same way you treat "normal" people.
my mom used to work for the sisters of st joseph and they had a program called hamilton out of the cold where they would provide them with a meal and a place to go when they had nothing - I think that was largely stopped during the pandemic - but we need more things like that - we need people who address these peoples economic condition - sit down with them and figure out a solution for a path forward, and if it is determined they lack the mental faculties to self-govern themselves - they have to be taken off the streets and put into a program either to help them, or to unfortunately contain them. They can't be on the streets. And yes it will be a drain on tax dollars, but it just isn't safe - both for them and sanitary conditions, and also for anyone else.
All this tent living and garbage raises a real risk of plagues re-emerging that we haven't seen since the great depression that unsanitary conditions breed. Not to mention rat infestations.
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Once the "infestation" is removed to somewhere else however we need more to do downtown - yes eating is all well and good - copps and live entertainment is good - clubs here and there, although thats a challenging one - clubs don't generally last very long due to cell phone culture - seen too many come and go..
but what else? What will all these hundreds of thousands of people downtown do? What did they USED to do downtown for fun? Well there was the opera and cinema - so jackson theatre and theatre aquarius will probably be packed.. I don't expect to see vaudeville or burlesqeu returning though hehe...
we had the horse racing.. that will never return.. we had the roller rink - THAT will never return.. I should map out one day all the things we used to do - but yes once we put in enough people back downtown we have to start thinking about more entertainment venues for people to interact downtown - I know we are no longer part of the commonwealth but seeing parades down james or king st again - ticker tape parades and whatnot would be awesome - as people hang out their windows.
I would also love to see FLAGS return - back in the day almost every single building had posts for flags to fly on the front of their buildings, and it was a very patriotic thing Love to see more canadian flags fly.
I lived in stoney creek my whole life - hamilton was seen as the "dirty place" stoney creek refused to associate with, until we got amalgamated in and had to accept our dirty reality lol..
Growing up I was downtown a lot as I went to mohawk college for 6 years - back when the bus station was still in gage park. At this point gage park was fairly decent, however I remember the time that the mental institutions were closed down and suddenly there was an influx of mental patients downtown muttering to themselves shouting and screaming ..
I remember when king william was a ghost town, the lister block and william thomas was boarded up, and james street was a ghost town - where homeless would wander up to you and ask you for money - where people would punch each other out right in front of jackson square. The lister block being restored saved king william. I hope the buildings being restored in the gore (if they don't collapse first, wilson blanchard..) saves the gore as well.
I remember seeing the decline of the eatons center into what it rotted into after eatons collapsed. I watched as everyone moved out to the subarbs and the downtown emptied out - one only has to look at photos of the past to see how busy the core used to be, so I agree, the re-influxation of people into the core IS the first step - but in the vacuum we've sorta made hamilton into the "mental health" capital of ontario, taking people from all over - remember the scooter phase? When the govt was footing the bill for their scooters and they were everywhere? That was a plague. Making drugs essentially legal with methadone clinics .. didn't work. Tent cities.. have not helped.
Nobody REALLY wants to help these people - the city is more concerned with simply hiding them away so that people who come to the core cannot see them - but we all know that wherever these "services" move to is simply going to tank that area of the city. Mac should have a giant mental health area of the city where people with mental issues can get the help they need, but of course then that's a mental hospital thing and people start to clutch their pearls "those people are people too!" - they were once people - zombies , as mentioned above is what most of them are now, and you don't treat zombies the same way you treat "normal" people.
my mom used to work for the sisters of st joseph and they had a program called hamilton out of the cold where they would provide them with a meal and a place to go when they had nothing - I think that was largely stopped during the pandemic - but we need more things like that - we need people who address these peoples economic condition - sit down with them and figure out a solution for a path forward, and if it is determined they lack the mental faculties to self-govern themselves - they have to be taken off the streets and put into a program either to help them, or to unfortunately contain them. They can't be on the streets. And yes it will be a drain on tax dollars, but it just isn't safe - both for them and sanitary conditions, and also for anyone else.
All this tent living and garbage raises a real risk of plagues re-emerging that we haven't seen since the great depression that unsanitary conditions breed. Not to mention rat infestations.
-----
Once the "infestation" is removed to somewhere else however we need more to do downtown - yes eating is all well and good - copps and live entertainment is good - clubs here and there, although thats a challenging one - clubs don't generally last very long due to cell phone culture - seen too many come and go..
but what else? What will all these hundreds of thousands of people downtown do? What did they USED to do downtown for fun? Well there was the opera and cinema - so jackson theatre and theatre aquarius will probably be packed.. I don't expect to see vaudeville or burlesqeu returning though hehe...
we had the horse racing.. that will never return.. we had the roller rink - THAT will never return.. I should map out one day all the things we used to do - but yes once we put in enough people back downtown we have to start thinking about more entertainment venues for people to interact downtown - I know we are no longer part of the commonwealth but seeing parades down james or king st again - ticker tape parades and whatnot would be awesome - as people hang out their windows.
I would also love to see FLAGS return - back in the day almost every single building had posts for flags to fly on the front of their buildings, and it was a very patriotic thing Love to see more canadian flags fly.