Toronto KING Toronto | 57.6m | 16s | Westbank | Bjarke Ingels Group

Where did you hear that ?

Wouldn't be surprised the building is about 80% empty ! 185,099 square feet available.

hmm, I'd rather them be closer to the core though, I guess it works. I thought they mentioned subway access.
 
taal said:
Where did you hear that ?

Wouldn't be surprised the building is about 80% empty ! 185,099 square feet available.

hmm, I'd rather them be closer to the core though, I guess it works. I thought they mentioned subway access.
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Forget the core, it will be great for this King and Strachan area......i kind of like how lately they're proposing and creating lots of office space in between many residential developments
..........For example, at King east (King East Centre, phase 1-2, First Gulf Corp. 6s-16s-19s/800,000 sq.ft.),
Front and Spadina area (The Globe HQ 19s/600,000 sq.ft.)
and the King west area.... (King and Peter, Allied 29s/800,000 sq.ft.), (Queen Richmond Centre.. Allied 17s/500,000 sq.ft.), (489 King St W of Spadina, Allied 22s/500.000 sq.ft.)
Gee, thats over 3 million sq.ft. not in the core, but then again just minutes away....It seems all good to me:cool:
 
Automation Gallery said:
Forget the core, it will be great for this King and Strachan area......i kind of like how lately they're proposing and creating lots of office space in between many residential developments
..........For example, at King east (King East Centre, phase 1-2, First Gulf Corp. 6s-16s-19s/800,000 sq.ft.),
Front and Spadina area (The Globe HQ 19s/600,000 sq.ft.)
and the King west area.... (King and Peter, Allied 29s/800,000 sq.ft.), (Queen Richmond Centre.. Allied 17s/500,000 sq.ft.), (489 King St W of Spadina, Allied 22s/500.000 sq.ft.)
Gee, thats over 3 million sq.ft. not in the core, but then again just minutes away....It seems all good to me:cool:
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hehe only one of those are confirmed to be starting ! I guess if you want to count QRC as well that's 2.

But a lot of condos in the area have added 1 or 2 floors of offices i.e. 15/20K.

Oh btw, add this to your list, in the liberty village has a 300K office building proposed. Forgot the name. Very few of these will get off the ground.
 
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I work in the newspaper biz... and that's the rumour. Its a good location for them.
 
taal said:
hehe Very few of these will get off the ground.
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Hehehe, but then thats what youve been saying for the last half dozen years, and look what has been proposed and built in this town during that time...
and now a new wave of proposals again, whats the difference this time around.
From what i understand at the moment the office vacancy rate in the City of Toronto is at 5-6%...and one of the lowest ever, but then again you would never believe any of those stats, in the meantime more and more office buildings just keep on getting proposed and breaking ground to your amazement......dont get it taal:confused:

Is it the Doom and Gloom, or is it that the City of Toronto at the moment doesnt deserve or need anymore (take it to the 905 or Bayfront type of attitude)....or is it just the numbers that dont crunch, regarding the vacancy rate and whats available here in town....help me out here:eek:
 
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You're right I was surprised (and wrong) regarding how many office buildings did get built.

Having said that all of them were in the core, that's the area that's hot. I should say, more firms that are growing are firms that are already in the core, not the outer core. Firms that want direct access to the subway.

In terms of the leasing activity, it actually did slow last quarter, across the GTA but in the core as well. I'm not sure if this will mean less new construction going forward but only time will tell.

I'll put it this way, I'd be surprised if any of the proposals to the east or west of the core get off the ground this year. If they do I'll happily admit to being wrong, as I'd love to see them built !

Toronto still needs to do a better job attracting firms from the 905 ! That really hasn't happened, yes there were a few one off cases. I'd think the growth of the island airport should help this but haven't seen this yet. I say this because many firms that locate near the airport actually want / need the airport access believe it or not.
 
Consolidation or shifting of office space to the core certainly benefits my personal investment strategy, but it doesn't satisfy me with respect to the economic health of the city region as a whole. A reverse drain from the 905 to the 416 or from the 416 suburbs to the core are trends that may exist or may be important but I would much rather see growth coming from within companies or from new businesses or from the migration of office work from other cities both domestically and internationally.
 
TrickyRicky said:
Consolidation or shifting of office space to the core certainly benefits my personal investment strategy, but it doesn't satisfy me with respect to the economic health of the city region as a whole. A reverse drain from the 905 to the 416 or from the 416 suburbs to the core are trends that may exist or may be important but I would much rather see growth coming from within companies or from new businesses or from the migration of office work from other cities both domestically and internationally.
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That's all well and good in principle but you're not factoring in the decades of near zero growth in the core. There's too much lost. I'm sure many will say the core is large enough as is and that's a valid argument i.e. instead of a Chicago, which still has quite a bit of space in the suburbs they have a massive core office space wise, even when you factor in the population difference. You see this in some other cities as well i.e. New York and the like. Europe tends to be the opposite.

I also consider the suburbs of 416 a complete write off, which basically 0 growth and very slow loss over the last 20 years or so. This applies to almost every part of the city north of Bloor. Even Yonge and Eglinton, while it managed to have very low vacancy rates there's been no growth at all.

Personally I think the more people working downtown the more opportunity for other things to improve the core.

But honestly maybe that's not the case. So much of the built form downtown is just terrible, maybe more people won't change a thing. Projects like the John street / Yonge street / Queens Quay revitalization is what will change things. Part of me likes to think if more people live and work in the core these things will change quicker.

Too add to this, the transportation model is very core centric, we should work with this and move even more jobs downtown.
 
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There's been 15 to 20 million square feet of new construction and converted industrial space added in the core in the past 20 years (along with the millions upon millions of square feet absorb after the worst bust to date.) Compounding that is the ever shrinking workspace per person. How can anyone believe there hasn't been growth in the downtown area? The shift has been to contract workers ,who for the most part, aren't considered employees and thus aren't likely to be included in most stats regarding workers.

Back room and manufacturing/distribution eat up the majority of the 905's office space however, a ton of space is taking by fly-by-nights and start-ups that seek out the cheapest price which downtown can't offer. Manu/warehousing doesn't make sense in the core either. As far as back room offices are concerned, the 416 is holding it's own despite 80% of the employees usually prefering to work closer to home.

Massive growth happening in the financial sector which along with expiring leases is feuling office construction. however, the dark side is that our financial institution are rapidly losing their Canadian roots and one has to wonder how long before they shift their entire international operations elsewhere.
 
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maestro said:
There's been 15 to 20 million square feet of new construction and converted industrial space added in the core in the past 20 years (along with the millions upon millions of square feet absorb after the worst bust to date.) Compounding that is the ever shrinking workspace per person. How can anyone believe there hasn't been growth in the downtown area? The shift has been to contract workers ,who for the most part, aren't considered employees and thus aren't likely to be included in most stats regarding workers.

Back room and manufacturing/distribution eat up the majority of the 905's office space however, a ton of space is taking by fly-by-nights and start-ups that seek out the cheapest price which downtown can't offer. Manu/warehousing doesn't make sense in the core either. As far as back room offices are concerned, the 416 is holding it's own despite 80% of the employees usually prefering to work closer to home.

Massive growth happening in the financial sector which along with expiring leases is feuling office construction. however, the dark side is that our financial institution are rapidly losing their Canadian roots and one has to wonder how long before they shift their entire international operations elsewhere.
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I'll address this in a separate reply but this doesn't address why the outer 416 has seen no growth whatsoever ?
 
What's the point of addressing the outer 416. It's planning and infrastructure is no better than the 905 (unless you're miketoronto where 15 min head times on buses is the cat's meow) and it's fully developed taking cheap available land out of the equation. (Just in case) A number of small boutique buildings have gone up along the Sheppard subway ; a line where stations are not positioned with the pedestrian in mind. Even so, it takes a network and not a couple stub lines to get the ball rolling.

RE: Scarborough Centre

The RT is there for people that have no other viable option and neither does a handiful of gated towers around a mall create an urban experience. Scarborough Centre is as auto centric as Mississauga Centre and both suffer the worst of both worlds. Higher density development including paid parking and few urban experiences.

Chicago and New York are incomparable. Despite rampant abandonment in some parts, these cities are built around prewar neighbourhoods that comparably stretch as far as Steeles in Toronto. There they tear down pristine 12 storey prewar highrises without blinking an eye while we get up in arms over some mutilated wood frame townhouses.
 
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maestro said:
Chicago and New York are incomparable. Despite rampant abandonment in some parts, these cities are built around prewar neighbourhoods that comparably stretch as far as Steeles in Toronto. There they tear down pristine 12 storey prewar highrises without blinking an eye while we get up in arms over some mutilated wood frame townhouses.
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I call BS. Give an example please.
 
neubilder said:
I call BS. Give an example please.
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The latest victim (that I can think of) in New York was the Drake Hotel:


MI-BA684_REALDE_DV_20100105223320.jpg

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704160504574640731749032584.html


It was demolished in 2007 in preparation for this.
 
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neubilder said:
I call BS. Give an example please.
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I can't think of some random address which is entirely my point. These cities have a depth of history and urban form Toronto will likely never achieve. The new proposals (some have advanced to construction while others are weed clogged empty lots) have to go somewhere. Of course, Manhattan has it's fair share of parking lots however, like Toronto, the location and timing isn't always there.

Anyways, it's not that difficult to find an example

demo'd
http://www.emporis.com/building/120-west-57th-street-new-york-city-ny-usa

for this
http://www.arkpartners.com/ark/docs/ARK 57 Article.pdf
 
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