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toronto is montreal

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kool maudit

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so i just got back from toronto, a city that i have an ever-increasing love for and appreciation of. in the downtown core, it is noticeably larger, more worldly and prominent than montreal - yet in the neighborhoods it remains noticeable that is was fairly shabby and poor compared to here in the 1930s. the little houses near bloor and dufferin, along woodbine and dundas - they are not triplexes with spiral staircases. they are clevelandesque...

but that doesn't matter. the thing that toronto is now doing -- for all the talk of inescapable difference - is the thing we were doing back when we were canada's centre. the ghanaian copy shops, the indonesian legal advice centres... it all speaks to a very wonderful and new worldy and immigration-centric metropolitanism. montreal in 1930 was toronto, leaning utility poles and all. the canadian metropolis, as an idea, is a fixed thing, however often it changes location.

my sister's new boyfriend, born and raised on dupont above the annex, was so happy to hear me sing the praises of his hometown. after all, torontonians adore montreal - why should we be so petty and churlish? they come here and like it, and i am happy to be among those who go there and like it too.

mordecai richler's montreal now takes place on bloor and ossington, roncesvalles, even yonge and summerhill which is so lower westmount it kills me.

the streetcars, the wires, the many new arrivals - it is there now. it's here too, but it's preeminent there. it's big there.

if montrealers don't love toronto they don't love themselves. montreal isn't caleche rides and bistro terrasses, montreal is chaos and bricks and a new beginning. now toronto is doing this expertly.

good for them.
 
very eloquent post, kool maudit....thx for the kind words....

Montreal has always been fantastic, in my books.....:)
 
It's nice to see someone from Montreal that appreciates Toronto for a change.

I am one of those who loves Montreal. It's an amazing city, and I wish I could visit more often than I do.
 
quite the post!.. Montreal is what makes Canada complete in my eyes! it continues to be one of the world's greatest cities!
 
CDL.TO said:
http://www.thebagelhouse.ca/

3 locations in the city now.
Click to expand...
Not impossible, but hard - can't say I spend much time driving through North York - neither location is near the subway - I've looked before. Hmm, that one at St. Clair and Yonge looks new ... though to tell the truth, I used St. Clair station recently for the first time in 30 years ... so not particularly convenient - but perhaps worth a side trip.

Ironically it was a lot easier to find decent bagels living in Kitchener of all places. It would be nice to see something downtown. I'm amazed I can't find any at St. Lawrence market (no St. Urbain doesn't count ... those look doughnuts).
 
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CDL.TO said:
http://www.thebagelhouse.ca/

3 locations in the city now.
Click to expand...
Very close, but still a half notch lower than bagels in Montreal IMO. BTW, according to my Israeli acquaintances, our bagels are now essentially North American food anyway. From their perspective, it's really arbitrary what you choose as being representative as "authentic", whether they be from Montreal or from New York.

Speaking of food... IMO overall the range of restaurants is better in Toronto than in Montreal, ignoring bagels (and French food) for the moment. This is esp. true for Asian restaurants, although Vancouver has better Asian seafood restaurants on average.
 
I love it how Montreal/Toronto discussions, at least among Torontonians, so often slide into laments about the poor bagel options in Toronto.

Yes, Bagel House is good. Until I swung by their Bayview location a year or two ago (upon reading a recommendation here on urbantoronto, I believe), I was quite jaded by people here in Toronto claiming to have found great Montreal-style bagels, only for me to discover later that they were the same damn Kaiser buns with a hole in the middle that way too many people in this city think is a good bagel.
 
I consider the bagels at Bagel House quite good. I just consider bagels in Montreal from several shops a little bit better.

Maybe part of that though is because it's easier to get hot-out-of-the-oven bagels in Montreal, so my opinion may be biased for that reason.

---

Other:

Toronto has higher living costs. It's much cheaper to find a place to live in Montreal.
Toronto on average pays more. The salaries in a lot of fields are lower in Montreal. (A lot of my friends, including Francophones, moved away from Montreal for that reason.)

In downtown Montreal it's not an issue most of the time, but at the periphery, the anti-anglo attitude in Montreal is sometimes very apparent. My sister moved away partially for that reason. She spoken relatively fluent French too, albeit with an anglo accent.
 
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nfitz said:
Ironically it was a lot easier to find decent bagels living in Kitchener of all places.
Click to expand...

Which places did you like? City Cafe? That place down on Kingsway?

On this thread topic, it's wonderful to hear an outsider perspective like that on our city. I lived in Montreal for a bit and I absolutely love the place. We're very fortunate to have two cities that are so different and yet both so appealing and exciting.
 
Eug said:
BTW, according to my Israeli acquaintances, our bagels are now essentially North American food anyway. From their perspective, it's really arbitrary what you choose as being representative as "authentic", whether they be from Montreal or from New York.
Click to expand...

Hey, sure, authentic Montreal bagels are authentically different than authentic Toronto bagels, and ditto for New York. But they're all authentic! ;-)

EDIT: I'd always thought of bagels as always having been essentially North American food, too, but there is some interesting digging into the history of the word and the food here.
 
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