Toronto id8 Downsview | ?m | ?s | Northcrest Developments | KPMB

Bombardier is outsourcing the assembly of the Q400. That production line will cease to exist at Downsview. They are also seriously considering moving production of the Global 7000/8000 to Montreal as word is the QC government insisted on something like this when they opened up the purse strings for the C-series.

There is no business case to keep any manufacturing in Toronto atm. My brother in law is an engineer on the Global program and he is very worried.

If we're serious about keeping aerospace in Toronto, then the ON government will have to put their balls in a vice.
 
bangkok said:
Where is the Q400 assembly going to be completed and when is it being moved?
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I presume that they will simply not close the airport until the new facility at Pearson is ready.

Getting planning approvals for development of this scale is going to take years regardless.
 
There's no way they will move Q400 production to Pearson. It is way too busy an airport for that. Somehow I recall maybe last year or the year before that there was talk of a joint venture being floated with the Russians. I wonder if that is back on the table or if they will move Q400 to YMX while some of the Cseries are produced in Alabama. Interesting times ahead, indeed.
 
bangkok said:
There's no way they will move Q400 production to Pearson. It is way too busy an airport for that. Somehow I recall maybe last year or the year before that there was talk of a joint venture being floated with the Russians. I wonder if that is back on the table or if they will move Q400 to YMX while some of the Cseries are produced in Alabama. Interesting times ahead, indeed.
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I forgot where they're moving its production, but it ain't Ontario.
 
^ See "Specifications" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Dash_8#Series_400

Q400:

Takeoff (MTOW, SL, ISA): 4,675 ft / 1,425 m
Landing (MLW, SL): 4,230 ft / 1,289 m

Update for the acronyms:

MTOW, SL, ISA = Max Take Off Weight Sea Level International standard atmosphere
MLW, SL = Max Landing Weight at Sea Level pressure

ISA is 15C and 29.92 pressure

I'm told the Q400 can take off of the island airport at MTOW with headwinds which reduces the required runway length for takeoff.
 
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Q400s operating from the Island don't operate at MTOW. They can depart without headwinds. Taking off into winds always helps to reduce field length.

The biggest factor in runway sizing aside from payload is the BFL (Balanced Field Length) or the length of runway required to bring an accelerating aircraft to a full stop after a rejected take-off (RTO). This distance is called the Accelerate-Stop Distance Required (ASDR).

To answer some of the questions here. When flight testing new airplanes, the loads are not substantial, so the ASDR is not very high. But they do a lot of RTO testing,. Which they usually need longer stretches of runway for.

lenaitch said:
Is there a need for any controlled or restricted airspace at this level?
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Not really. Airspace issues aren't a huge deal. Toronto is not very tightly controlled at the lower levels until you get close to Pearson. Hence why the traffic chopper can just park over the 401/DVP without getting harrassed by ATC. And normal flight testing doesn't need where tightly controlled airspace anyway. They aren't doing stall recovery or controlled flight departures over Toronto. Flight testing post manufacture is largely focused on making sure all the pieces fit together as per the drawings. So the maneuvers are largely what you see in standard airline ops.

innsertnamehere said:
Or Oshawa
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Oshawa will probably be closed after the Pickering airport is built. Like Buttonville, it's getting hemmed in by development. And this is becoming seriously problematic.
 
Filip said:
My brother in law is an engineer on the Global program and he is very worried.
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He should start planning the transfer to Montreal. If they leave Downsview, they are probably leaving Ontario. Short of the provincial government giving them hundreds of millions to set up a new plant.
 
kEiThZ said:
He should start planning the transfer to Montreal. If they leave Downsview, they are probably leaving Ontario. Short of the provincial government giving them hundreds of millions to set up a new plant.
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That he has.

Either way, he has zero interest in moving to Montreal (or being forced to learn French, at his age). My sister even less so.
 
Now that would throw fits at Air Canada! I'd love to see it happen if only to see the CS3 in porter livery.
 
Allandale25 said:
^ See "Specifications" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Dash_8#Series_400

Q400:

Takeoff (MTOW, SL, ISA): 4,675 ft / 1,425 m
Landing (MLW, SL): 4,230 ft / 1,289 m
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So the longest runway at the Brampton/Caledon facility would have to be lengthened by ~ 1,000 feet....ah, well, do it while your building the production facility. ;)

or does the fact that testing is done without a full load of passengers/luggage mean it can get up and down on the shorter 3,500 foot runway already there?
 
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