TOareaFan
Superstar
Not sure what you mean.
Not sure what you mean.
howl
Active Member
Currently, getting approval for any major new development in the core (Cooksville, MCC, Eglinton) is challenging because traffic is already at capacity during rush hour in that area. You can't get approval to build more residential units or office space because you'd be adding too many additional cars to the system. The LRT will allow substantially more people to move around the City, and into and out of the core, which should open the flood gates on new development. The same is true of Brampton (at Steeles). Cities based on an automobile-model can only get to a certain density before they get gridlocked - therefore they need to grow outwards, which Mississauga can no longer do. By switching to a transit-model the City can start to grow up and increase it's density in key locations.
The roads in Mississauga and Brampton will always be at or near capacity, but the LRT (and other transit initiatives) will allow people to move despite that and will therefore allow it to continue to grow.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
Re the parts I have bolded.....has Mississauga actually turned down developments on Hurontario because of the traffic it would add to the street? If so, which ones....cause (re the second part) Brampton has not.
howl
Active Member
I'm not privy to specifics but I was told that the land northwest of Eglinton and Hurontario, and the lands northeast behind the Shopper's plaza, and the land southeast behind the "Mississauga Marketplace" are all sitting vacant because of traffic issues at the Eglinton and Hurontario intersection. Developers might be able to build low density housing there now, but they are waiting for the LRT so they can build high density in the future.
Also, in Cooksville there was a proposal for townhouses on the former City Hall site a number of years ago, I think they might have even started pre-sales, but that was kiboshed by the developer when the LRT was announced. Again they are just sitting on the land waiting for the LRT to get approved so they can apply for higher density product.
Once the LRT gets to an irreversible state I predict we will see a flood of new high density development applications all along the corridor. The LRT is a game-changer and will have a huge impact on how development happens in Canada's sixth and ninth largest cities.
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sixrings
Senior Member
As a torontonian who grew up in a toronto suburb and has family in mississauga i see a need for the lrt. The lrt will be a first step in making mississauga and Brampton their own cities. Currently even though they are listed as their own cities they are really bed room communities for employment for toronto. I do realize 905 has a lot of jobs but they are missing the big corporate banks lawyers and accounting offices that dominate downtown toronto. This lrt project in my opinion is important because it isn't about getting people to Toronto but getting people to move between mississauga and Brampton. The other way I look at is that ottawa Edmonton Calgary are all the same size as mississauga and they all have or are getting LRT. If the city wants to be continued to look at in high esteem which is how many look at mississauga than it is going to have to keep up with an adequate transit system.
wopchop
Building Toronto
That's a interesting thing to consider, actually. I was reading a Star article yesterday about the "Transportation Tomorrow Survey" and it seemed to indicate that only 8% of Mississauga commuters are heading downtown (the study doesn't seem to focus on people commuting to areas of Toronto outside of downtown).
A couple things that they concluded;
According to the survey, 85% of transit trips, and 45% of auto trips in the GTHA end up in the 416. Pretty good.
But if you start to look at the planning districts and the %s of people actually heading to downtown 416 (as opposed to non-downtown 416 or elsewhere), then consider that 85% of transit trips are heading downtown, you start to see where there is a real shortage in public transit solutions.
If you think about it, it makes sense. The GTHA is home to about 6.5 million people. Downtown Toronto has 450,000 jobs, with the Airport trailing in second with about half that many. Everyone else has to be working somewhere.
Like you said, if we want to really reduce congestion and automobile use, other communities need rapid transit within their own regions that are not solely focused on sending people downtown.
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crs1026
Superstar
Statistics have their place, but they can be misused too. I don't think this kind of question sits on precise ridership numbers. If you stand at Eglinton and Hurontario, you will see a huge number of people going #somewhere#, and clearly 85% of them are NOT going downtown.
It makes huge sense to create a transit anchor for development along that corridor. They are proposing LRT which is a lot less extravagant than what Toronto politicians are planning in places. The opportunity to change from auto to transit habits is huge. I would say it's a good investment. Precision in numbers isn't going to sway the case.
- Paul
It makes huge sense to create a transit anchor for development along that corridor. They are proposing LRT which is a lot less extravagant than what Toronto politicians are planning in places. The opportunity to change from auto to transit habits is huge. I would say it's a good investment. Precision in numbers isn't going to sway the case.
- Paul
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Devil's advocate:
What about a downtown Mississauga Square One SmartTrack station, in the event the Hurontario LRT becomes cancelled/deferred?
The route of SmartTrack (on a real-geometry map) curves southwards and tantalizingly points in the direction of Mississauga downtown. Perfectly tailor-made for future politics. A future SmartTrack extension (shorter extension than Scarborough subway) from Airport Corporate, theoretically puts an underground SmartTrack station at Square One, for a nonstop ride to downtown Toronto. Mississauga residents can even go to the future Mt. Dennis interchange and change to UPX for airport, catch a GOTrain (Kitchener line), do the Eglinton Crosstown, or continue on the SmartTrack to Union, or even a nonstop single-seat ride to Scarborough and Markham (making it possible for Markham-Scarborough-Mississauga to be bedroom communties for each other!). Many options would be opened up by a downtown Mississauga SmartTrack station. Many cities with less population density than downtown Mississauga, have subways with reasonable farebox recovery, far better than Sheppard, so it's economically feasible, at least in theory.
Would this be a consolation prize if Hurontario is deferred indefinitely?
What about a downtown Mississauga Square One SmartTrack station, in the event the Hurontario LRT becomes cancelled/deferred?
The route of SmartTrack (on a real-geometry map) curves southwards and tantalizingly points in the direction of Mississauga downtown. Perfectly tailor-made for future politics. A future SmartTrack extension (shorter extension than Scarborough subway) from Airport Corporate, theoretically puts an underground SmartTrack station at Square One, for a nonstop ride to downtown Toronto. Mississauga residents can even go to the future Mt. Dennis interchange and change to UPX for airport, catch a GOTrain (Kitchener line), do the Eglinton Crosstown, or continue on the SmartTrack to Union, or even a nonstop single-seat ride to Scarborough and Markham (making it possible for Markham-Scarborough-Mississauga to be bedroom communties for each other!). Many options would be opened up by a downtown Mississauga SmartTrack station. Many cities with less population density than downtown Mississauga, have subways with reasonable farebox recovery, far better than Sheppard, so it's economically feasible, at least in theory.
Would this be a consolation prize if Hurontario is deferred indefinitely?
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WislaHD
Superstar
I'm not opposed to it because Square One is about the same distance to downtown as Scarborough Town Center is. So long as the Hurontario line would remain in the works in the near future.
I think the two lines would be largely complementary if both built. Many would take the LRT to reach the Smarttrack station.
I think the two lines would be largely complementary if both built. Many would take the LRT to reach the Smarttrack station.
MrsNesbitt
Active Member
I certainly think that that would be a fantastic way to make the Eglinton section of SmartTrack a reasonable addition. As it stands the westward turn along Eglinton is really quite a white elephant in the entirety of the plan, especially considering that SmartTrack is just GO RER with a different name so that Tory could market it to 416'ers whose ears shut tight at the mention of the word GO. The eastern end of the plan already reaches out of Toronto itself, up into Markham, and so it makes a lot of sense that Mississauga City Centre could become the final destination for the western leg. Didn't Crombie endorse Tory or at least speak highly of him or something anyhow during the election campaign? Maybe there's more going on than we might think.
I also agree with Wisla - the LRT and an RER tunnel (SmartTrack) to MCC aren't mutually exclusive. The LRT would therefore funnel into the GO network at no less than four spots: Brampton, Square One, Cooksville, and Port Credit. I'm liking it already. And of course, as was noted above elsewhere, the LRT is key to unlocking the ability to move around Mississauga in spite of its legendary traffic, and allow the city to grow while doing so.
Any idea on if an RER/SmartTrack extension to MCC could make use of part of the Transitway? I admit I'm not very well-versed in the route of the Transitway.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Indeed. A perfect combination; fast local Hurontario service, connected to express intercity service. That opens a lot of new travel opportunities.
BurlOak
Senior Member
You got a bit carried away there. Mississaugans would be 2km away from the airport at the corporate centre. I doubt they would travel an extra 8km, just so they could take the 8km (and $20) ride to Pearson.
JGHali
Active Member
What cities have subways with "less population density" than downtown Missassauga? It's not a real downtown when it's a few condos surrounding a mall.
nfitz
Superstar
Vaughan.
TOareaFan
Superstar
nailed it in the first guess....see to have a true downtown you need an Ikea store and a lot more "vacant land with plans"
