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TOareaFan said:
This I agree with....plus when you add in that GO is very Union centred you would be asking/requiring people to take their GO trains from wherever they are to Union to transfer onto a train that takes them to Markham. Pretty sure most people would, either, drive or skip the event.



This I can't agree with as much. It would be more likely that someone else who owned land near VCC comes up with a competing plan. Developers like this propose projects like this to maximize the value of their land....sure they hope to bring some community benefit but they are, afterall, people in the land/property business. Saying "this does not make sense here so I will sell this land and buy land where it makes sense" is like saying "I will sell low and buy high"....not how they got rich in the first place.
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Yeah, that's exactly what Remington is doing here. They are probably losing money on the arena (that parcel of land is worth a fortune!), but the marketability of the adjacent lands for office use would immediately increase (especially if an NHL team was announced), and it certainly couldn't hurt the prices of the townhomes and condos they're selling, which are already fetching decent prices for the area.
 
Why do you think it would increase land value of adjacent plots of land ?
I'm not disagreeing with you btw, just curious.

Other suburban arenas aren't typically surrounded by office development or residential development.

Seeing how this is being planed differently from the get go, whether the arena comes or not, you'd argue we'd see it either way.
 
I'm not sure about other markets, but wouldn't having an NHL arena next door make Markham more attractive to office tenants so they could offer corporate tickets to employees and clients? Wouldn't living next to a large entertainment venue make residential property more attractive? People who don't want to live in the suburbs often cite a lack of entertainment options as a key reason.
 
canarob said:
I'm not sure about other markets, but wouldn't having an NHL arena next door make Markham more attractive to office tenants so they could offer corporate tickets to employees and clients? Wouldn't living next to a large entertainment venue make residential property more attractive? People who don't want to live in the suburbs often cite a lack of entertainment options as a key reason.
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I'm not really sure ... people who live in the suburbs also generally aren't huge fans of traffic / noise, and that's what this would attract. I really don't think the office argument is strong ... employers could offer such tickets no matter where the said arena was located. Seeing how I work in Markham, the type of businesses here aren't heavy on the client presence.

I really doubt anyone in their right mind would decide to live beside an arena and an arena alone for 'entertainment' purposes. I can see many wanting to live in the idea of what downtown Markham represents regardless of an arena.
 
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taal said:
I'm not really sure ... people who live in the suburbs also generally aren't huge fans of traffic / noise, and that's what this would attract. I really don't think the office argument is strong ... employers could offer such tickets no matter where the said arena was located. Seeing how I work in Markham, the type of businesses here aren't heavy on the client presence.

I really doubt anyone in their right mind would decide to live beside an arena and an arena alone for 'entertainment' purposes. I can see many wanting to live in the idea of what downtown Markham represents regardless of an arena.
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I think some would be attracted by living next to an arena and others would be deterred by the potential for traffic. Personally, I would rather live at least somewhat nearby such an arena than have to drive to the west end (or wherever) to experience the same entertainment, although I do see how living right next to it might be a pain on game nights. I have seen realtors on Twitter saying things like "buy now before the arena is built and prices rise," etc. I know that realtors will sometimes say anything for a sale, but to some extent if you buy into the idea of living in a new downtown, why wouldn't you want arena-type entertainment, be it hockey or concerts? If you want a small town feel, why not move to Cornell? To me an arena is a very "downtown" thing.

In terms of businesses, that may be true of the existing software and related businesses in the area, but an arena might attract more client-centric businesses. I know being next to an arena isn't necessarily a huge selling point, but it could offer some perks, especially if the area around the arena spawns a wide selection of restaurants and bars nearby. It would certainly be different than working at an office park at 404/407.
 
canarob said:
I think some would be attracted by living next to an arena and others would be deterred by the potential for traffic. Personally, I would rather live at least somewhat nearby such an arena than have to drive to the west end (or wherever) to experience the same entertainment, although I do see how living right next to it might be a pain on game nights. I have seen realtors on Twitter saying things like "buy now before the arena is built and prices rise," etc. I know that realtors will sometimes say anything for a sale, but to some extent if you buy into the idea of living in a new downtown, why wouldn't you want arena-type entertainment, be it hockey or concerts? If you want a small town feel, why not move to Cornell? To me an arena is a very "downtown" thing.

In terms of businesses, that may be true of the existing software and related businesses in the area, but an arena might attract more client-centric businesses. I know being next to an arena isn't necessarily a huge selling point, but it could offer some perks, especially if the area around the arena spawns a wide selection of restaurants and bars nearby. It would certainly be different than working at an office park at 404/407.
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I think were on the same page for the most part. Regarding restaurants, downtown Markham was meant to be full of them regardless of the arena. So if this arena was being built in the middle of no where, then I could see that argument. Anyway, your right at the very least it wouldn't detract from values.
 
Personally I'd love to live at maple leaf square and that's beside an arena. Arenas attract all sorts of entertainment and restaurants and even hotels. Hotels are great places for the family to stay at the when visiting and typically have late night menus vs traditional restaurants. But at the same time I want to live in a pedestrian friendly transit oriented community. It's hard to imagine but if I try hard enough I can picture that as a reality in vcc but not in Markham. There's no bias to either place either but simply distance to downtown makes it difficult for proper transit to ever get out to Markham. Scarborough is desperate for a subway and that isn't happening. Go transit is alright but it's definitely not a subway. Anyways yeah I'd love to live beside an arena.
 
Awfully quiet regarding this arena. Does anybody have information about the official proposal? Seems it's been expected "in the next couple of weeks" for the past few months.
 
In Toronto it has become incredibly fashionable to live close to entertainment facilities. Whereas 15 years ago the lands around the skydome and ACC were mostly undesirable, nowadays it is that same area that has seen the biggest population explosion in the GTA.

Downtown Markham wants to recreate the environment that attracts young successful people to downtown Toronto. It is understandable then that they want to mimic that aspect of the city.

Personally I live walking distance from the skydome, the ACC, and to a lesser extent BMO Field/Ricoh Coliseum. I attend many more events and enjoy myself more than if I lived out in Mississauga/Etobicoke/etc as a result.
 
I don't think the lands around the SkyDome or ACC developed because of the SkyDome or ACC, they developed because it is downtown and the lands were made available. Most stadiums in North America are surrounded with massive parking lots. It isn't a place people want to live or work. What did Scotiabank Place do for Ottawa? How about the neighbourhood around Lincoln Financial Centre, Wells Fargo Centre, and Citizens Bank Park... that should be really hot property right?
 
I didn't say it had become fashionable to live there because of such facilities. But it has.

A couple of years ago when I lived in an apartment from which I could see the field inside the skydome, everyone's reaction was 'that's so cool! you can watch the games!', before thinking 'then again you can WALK to games whenever!'. Sports have become quite gentrified, and most of the people attending games nowadays are upper-middle-class or above (and come with children, etc.).

Culturally for the people of Toronto, I feel an association has been made between a walkable, livable downtown, and sport arenas. And it's great!
 
marp said:
Awfully quiet regarding this arena. Does anybody have information about the official proposal? Seems it's been expected "in the next couple of weeks" for the past few months.
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The proponents said they would apply to the town in early 2012, and it's only March, so I wouldn't worry about this dying on the vine just yet. They have the land, the money and a design, so I expect this to at least become a solid proposal.

What might kill this is if they are counting on provincial or federal dollars.
 
Re: transit, the Hwy 7 transitway is under construction and all day service is a work in progress on the GO line. You don't need subways to provide good rapid transit in the suburbs.

Whether or not the area around the new arena is a success has more to do with how the Town of Markham handles growth and less to do with what other suburban arena districts look like. There aren't many cities in North America with the high density suburban nodes that are being built around the GTA.
 
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